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06 November 2008 @ 06:28 pm
Just adding an addendum to the issues at hand  
I know everyone's probably sick and tired of having political stuff bombarding their flists, but since I rarely talk about these things I'm going to do it briefly here for a moment. With Obama being elected our next President of the United States there's been a shift in the worldwide public, from reading it online to the smiling faces of people on the streets (seriously, I went outside today and people seemed happier and proudly proclaiming their joy to random strangers, it's quite amazing). However I notice there's the minority of those that feel differently, which is causing some drama. Look, it doesn't matter which party you belong to or who you voted for, to outrightly dismiss one person because of their political views is childish and uncalled for. Already there's people defriending others based on their opinions alone, and to me that's just petty. I accept everyone voicing their opinions and while there might've been some things said during the heat of emotion on election night we all need to respect one another's opinions even if they differ from our own. That's how things should be if we're going to be expecting any change; whether Democrat or Republican, liberal or conservative, treat each other respectively. Just saying.

Also regarding Prop.8, I am just as disappointed as anyone else that it passed. To me it seems ridiculously unfair and such a setback to what we already started to achieve with getting rid of unnecessary discrimination. But this doesn't mean we can't still fight for it. Obviously there are so many things to be reformed and changed in this country, and sorry to say but I feel those are currently more important than the marriage issue. Our economy alone desperately needs to get cleaned up, so many factors about the people need to be addressed and concentrated on and once we get that going, then we'll try again. Though I think we should be grateful it's staying a proposition matter and not an amendment, that would be something to worry about.

An interesting little tidbit is during school yesterday and today we were having a little off-topic debate about Proposition 8 and it was interesting hearing people's different opinions, thoughts and viewpoints about it. I might not have agreed with some things said, but I respect their views and I like hearing how people think and their reasonings for why they believe what they believe. They aren't "hateful" as some people on here and elsewhere have claimed those who approved of the proposition, it's just how they see things which I understand and respect. It wouldn't be a democracy in this country if everyone had the same way of thinking. I found it intriguing and interesting, especially since having politics and religion in the same debate is guaranteed to have some fireballs being thrown by opposing sides. It didn't get heated thankfully, but it certainly did place into perspective of why such topics of discussion are avoided in a casual setting.

It's not over people, it's just not going to magically repair all the world's problems only two days after a historical election. Time and patience, plus determination. Continue to fight what you believe in and don't give up, and I guarantee that somewhere in our future this won't be an issue (at least a huge issue) as it currently is. I do believe in change and I do believe that we can make a difference. My optimism, let me show you it.

I have Supernatural to watch in about less than two hours so, less with the seriousness of politics and more with the squeeing later. I promise!
 
 
Current Mood: contemplativecontemplative
Current Music: Jem - Down To Earth
 
 
 
Robyncakesbitterbird on November 7th, 2008 03:33 am (UTC)
Im so shocked by some of the things Ive seen in the last few days really, *hides and hugs you*
theres a petition for prop 8 here http://www.petitiononline.com/seg5130/petition.html
I really was so upset it passed!

enjoy spn!
Renéerogueslayer452 on November 7th, 2008 04:57 am (UTC)
Me too. I mean even after the election and with everyone exploding with happiness there are those that are being the rotten apples of the barrel which is harshing people's squee. You'd think in this day and age people would be more accepting or at least not hiding in their ignorance or lacking any class or taste in their comments. Obviously not, and I shouldn't be surprised because there are people like that in this country. But alas, it still saddens me. And at a time like this, it frightens me.

Thanks for the link. I don't know how much good this'll do though, being an online petition which is usually a hit or miss, but thank you nonetheless.
rawthorne on November 7th, 2008 08:47 am (UTC)
I agree with you that America made huge progress with this election. Having Obama as president is literally the beginning of a new age both nationally and globally. I think the world is ready to try diplomacy and a different focus on issues that concern us all - to start with, the global economic situation, but also climate change, regional conflicts like Darfour and Congo and so on.

But I disagree when it comes to Prop 8. When one side's position resides on taking away the rights of others, I have a hard time calling that anything but hateful. I don't understand and I don't respect their position because they don't respect or understand mine: the proof of it is that the arguments against gay marriage rely on misrepresenting what gay marriage will do to society, the family or the younger generation, as though we're a plague that must be stopped.
Renéerogueslayer452 on November 7th, 2008 05:46 pm (UTC)
When one side's position resides on taking away the rights of others, I have a hard time calling that anything but hateful. I don't understand and I don't respect their position because they don't respect or understand mine: the proof of it is that the arguments against gay marriage rely on misrepresenting what gay marriage will do to society, the family or the younger generation, as though we're a plague that must be stopped.

Oh, I understand and agree with that completely. My point simply isn't calling everyone who voted "yes" hateful. The proposition in itself, how it was worded and voiced out, gave a twisted way of manipulation into some people's heads based on their personal beliefs about the term "marriage", since the word means different things for different people. Granted in California I rarely saw any pro-8 signs, since this is mostly a liberal state especially the area I live in, but I'm still baffled at the results. I have no doubt there are others who'll do anything to stop homosexuality from becoming the norm in our society, and I find that utterly disgusting that they can't get over themselves.

Do I want this form of discrimination to stop? Absolutely. Do I wish people would've been more open-minded while voting? Definitely. I do think that if the definition of "marriage" and the personal beliefs of others is going to clash in this manner, especially if they have no opposition of gays in general just the marriage bit, there should be an option for civil union or something of that nature that have the same benefits as marriage does. That's what I think the proposition should've been about. Not to stop gay marriage completely because it'll distrupt our children's lives and society as a whole, which I find ridiculous people would believe that. But you'll be surprised at how many DO think that, even if they have no problems with gays.

Case in point, I see both sides of the argument but I believe in equality for all. I just find this whole issue ridiculous because really, it should be a no-brainer, but this is something heavy that'll continue for a while until we reach a common ground between both sides. Does that make sense?
rawthorne on November 8th, 2008 09:02 am (UTC)
It does make sense, though I confess my inability to be as open-minded about some people's ignorance as you are. Whether they were duped or not into denying the right to marry to thousands of couples just because it threatened heterosexual marriage or the fabric of society itself (which is comprised of many, many divorced, widowed or single people, not to mention gays and lesbians, but we won't mention those) the fact remains that the result of their vote is a hateful measure of discrimination.
himhilienhimhilien on November 7th, 2008 08:30 pm (UTC)
Both sides of this election made some really ridiculous drama. Ugh. I'm so happy we saw the McCain I respected back in 2000 come out during his concession speech. I'm so sad to see that part of him get lost during this campaign. I'm positive he will keep his promise to do his best in being a part of a bi-partisan Washington D.C. that I'm hoping Obama will bring.

I think those of us who are sad by the fact that Prop 8 was passed must look on the bright side that it was not passed by an overwhelming majority like it was in the other states in this election that had similar things on their ballots like Michigan (my home state) had this on the ballot in 2006, and I think approximately 65% of the voters were opposed to gay marriage.

I honestly do not think that an overwhelming majority of the states will legalize gay marriage anytime soon. Maybe some sort of civil union where gay couples get the same benefits as heterosexual, married couples but in on itself is going to take a couple decades to accomplish just for the fact that things like the term marriage, gender roles, and religion are so ingrained in so many people's minds as one thing that it is very difficult for them to think anything differently.
Renéerogueslayer452 on November 7th, 2008 08:49 pm (UTC)
I was very impressed with McCain and how he managed to have class and respectfully make that speech post-election as opposed to his raging supporters. I understand that some were disheartened by it if they supported his campaign, but there's been massive name-calling and racism and rage from others that it's getting ugly. Even as emotions run high there's no need for that. I'm actually looking forward to that day when McCain and Obama will work together to bring forth change in this country.

Maybe some sort of civil union where gay couples get the same benefits as heterosexual, married couples but in on itself is going to take a couple decades to accomplish just for the fact that things like the term marriage, gender roles, and religion are so ingrained in so many people's minds as one thing that it is very difficult for them to think anything differently.

Precisely. While I do want the acceptance of same-sex marriage and for discrimination to stop entirely it's seems almost too good to be true to have something that miraculous to happen immediately, especially after such a historical turn of events in the election. I DO want an agreement from both sides to have a civil union for gay couples to have those same benefits as heterosexual marriages do. I also agree it's going to take a long time before that even happens, but that is why change for this country is good. To move forward for that possibility in the future.

Obama as president proves this nation wants change, and even with gay marriage being only one of the many things that are on the list to be changed and reformed, I have a feeling we're working up to it. As we have been for many years, and we've come a long way since then as well.