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26 September 2009 @ 08:34 pm
SPN: "Free To Be You And Me" Episode Review + Meta  
First thing's first, want to say a warm hello and welcome to all my newly made friends from the Castiel Is Just As Good As Any Winchester Friending Meme! Which, anyone that loves our precious angel and wants new friends to squee with, I suggest participating in that friending meme. Castiel needs all our love.

Finished my review/meta for Thursday's episode. It's a bit sporadic with my thoughts than my previous reviews, but it's finally written. That's all that matters to me at the moment.

Supernatural 5.03 "Free To Be You And Me"

First of all, can we just say most epic fanservicey episode ever?! Seriously Kripke, I fucking love you for this. ♥

In his quest for God, Castiel asks for Dean's help in finding Raphael, the archangel that killed him, and interrogate him for information regarding God's location. Together they team up on this mission, realizing that Castiel's life may be in danger if Raphael decides to kill him once again. It turns into a mission/bro's night out between the two as certain hilarity ensues, finding more companionship in their time together than merely a hunting job of sorts, definitely a "free to be you and me" bonding between the two. But when they finally do trap Raphael, he gives startling revelations to Castiel that Heaven believes that God is dead, and that it might as well have been Lucifer himself that brought Castiel back from death, recruiting all rebellious angels to his side. Castiel is then left feeling almost jaded by this news the archangel gave him, but is reassured of his faith by Dean, who tells him that he needs to continue searching for God if he truly believes in his heart and soul that He is still out there somewhere.

Meanwhile, Sam tries his hardest on giving up his old ways, rejuvenating, but ends up having his destiny catching up with him, interrupting the calm he set for his time away from his brother. And he gets a surprise visitor, Jessica who actually is an illusion by Lucifer, who reveals himself to Sam in the end, giving him yet another revelation: Sam is actually Lucifer's true vessel. This leaves Sam in grave devastation and shock.

Filled with much fanservice glee and squeeage, this is turning out to be the best season of all the Supernatural seasons thus far.


Dean and Castiel: The Bro Code Between Man and Angel (or The Most Epically Epic OTP That Ever Was)

There is no denying that this episode was primarily for all the Dean and Castiel moments, ever since the previews and the spoiler clips we knew this was going to be mostly all about them and their time hunting and solving mysteries and going on missions together. Whether one ships them together or not, it is impossible to say they have no chemistry or they don't care about each other. I mean it's clearly evident that they do. One would have to be blind to not see that. From Castiel going to Dean for help, Dean agreeing, them hunting together, having a “bros night out” if you will, enjoying each other’s company, being protective of one another, the reassurance of faith, and so on. If anything, this episode placed a solid establishment to their growing bond, which started since last season but this is clear evidence they are no longer on opposing side of just man and angel doing business transactions.

I could go into massive detail of each individual scene with them, how I adored all their tiny moments and quirks, but nearly everyone has done this already. What I appreciated most about this episode though, was us, the audience, witnessing the evolution and development of not only their growing bond with each other but also seeing them becoming their own person; being individuals, finding their own paths and enjoying each other’s company while they’re at it.

This is about finding friendship, someone to trust without secrets, to be completely themselves without all the pressure of their jobs. And that is something I have been wishing to happen since last season – and I am happy they gradually worked to this point, because it was glorious.

And this is creating some kerfluffle in fandom, as expected because fandom is so predictable with their reactions. It’s sad, but true.

First of all, let me just say that Dean hanging out with Castiel is not replacing Sam. Anyone that says otherwise or claims that the show is forgetting about the Winchester brothers are being ridiculous and on the defensive too much (again, this is fandom, overreaction and missing the point of the situation is placed on default to some). Dean admitting that he’s never had that much fun in years isn’t suggesting he hasn’t had fun with his brother at all, only most recently. He still misses his brother; the opening montage paints that clear picture he’d rather have his Sammy back. But the Sammy he knew, not the Sammy that we’ve been seeing over the last season. Hence them taking time apart. Castiel is not taking away Dean’s love for his brother – in fact, it was Castiel that brought up Sam twice in this episode; he actually acknowledged Sam’s absence in the very beginning of the episode, for Christ’s sakes.

Let’s backtrack for a second here. Dean hasn’t been happy, and I mean truly happy, for a long time. He spent forty years in Hell, and while only four months in our time the memories of those forty years still linger in Dean’s mind. Also, he was suffering through not only that personal turmoil but both the brothers were at odds ends with each other, as well. So while a part of him is in denial, as that is Dean’s defense mechanism, it’s also partially true because he truly hasn’t felt that kind of happiness and freedom in a long, long time, even with his brother at his side. Dean finds this comfort with Castiel because he knows Castiel, they’ve been through much since they’ve met and this angel has proven himself numerous of times that everything he does has been for Dean, and he knows wholeheartedly that Castiel is telling him the truth and won’t turn his back on him.

Is there something wrong with Dean finding a friend outside of his brother? Has Dean ever had someone this close to him that he could confide in and trust with his life? No, and quite frankly, this is why I enjoy having the brothers apart because it allows them to breathe fresh air; to be around different people, to figure themselves.

Really. How hard is this to figure out, you guys? Seriously.

In any case, this episode is what I predicted it would be – the Totally Awesome and Epic Bonding Episode. Giving us the budding friendship between Dean and his angel as they go off on this mission, do normal cases and have some time together, smiling and laughing and having each other’s back. It was all so perfect and well done. Even with the brothel scene, it was showing us that Dean was trying to have Castiel be in his world much like how Castiel has been doing to him since day one, and it completely backfired but Dean didn’t care because he actually enjoyed his time with his angel. The both of them just hanging out, letting go of the tension and pressures of their jobs for a little while. It’s refreshing to see, and it’s healthy that Dean is actually going out instead of brooding around or dwelling over his brother.

It's also healthy for Castiel, too. The last scene with them in the Impala after their encounter with Raphael, Dean is consoling him and comparing their daddy issues and letting Castiel know that he shouldn't give up, he shouldn't lose hope or his faith in believing that God is somewhere out there in the universe. It's not that Dean believes in God – he might acknowledge it, but he doesn't have that faith, nevertheless he knows that Castiel does and is willing to give him that comforting advice and convince him into continuing his mission by following his heart, what he truly believes is right. That, by far, is the sweetest thing that Dean has done for Castiel, because we could see him mulling over this information as Raphael was telling him things that could have destroyed his faith entirely. He was crumbling, and Dean doesn't want Castiel to crumble, not now, not after everything. They are both needing each other right now, and I love seeing that they are so comfortable with each other to just be themselves around one another.

What's more is how much they are rubbing off each other. Castiel is starting to become more and more humanized with each passing day, his expressions and reactions alone justify this. I mean, him actually using profanity twice in this episode, pretty much towards a motherfucking archangel no less? Oh man, that is fierce and badass. Dean is totally influencing him. I love it.

Yeah. Again, I could go on but I think I covered almost every single aspect of why I loved this episode mainly for these Dean/Castiel moments. It was beautiful, it was perfect and I don’t think I could have imagined anything else.

Besides, most of their scenes were things I’ve seen from fanfics, and just having that fanservice is frakking awesome, to tell the truth. Not going to lie.


Sam Winchester and Lucifer's Big Revelation

I’m actually kind of glad that there was a balance between the Dean and Sam scenes, from the opening montage of syncing up what they’re doing, from the hunting to the domesticated settings, it was very well organized and put together.

I don’t have much to say about what happened in regards to the hunters in this episode, it was more of a plot device of Sam having his unfortunate destiny following him wherever he goes. It also makes it a hard reality for him because he has tried time and again to have a normal life, or at least attempt at one, but it always ends up failing. He does admit that he’s not pretending to be normal; he’s only trying to get better by distracting himself from the hunting scene. But that’s biting him in the ass.

But this does rise an interesting point with any particular hunter that learns about Sam’s involvement in everything. Much like Gordon once learning about Sam’s psychic abilities, he went hunting for him. These hunters then are looking for Sam for answers, tempting him with demon blood to get him to hulk out once again for their own gain. Now it’s not just angels and demons hunting Sam, it may very well be other hunters too, especially those who are more unforgiving because of his very nature of having been tainted with demon blood and what he managed to do all last season. It’s horrific to really think that there is no other path than the one that has been predestined to you since you were only an infant.

Sam is Lucifer’s true vessel, not Nick. This wasn’t horribly surprising since we all were predicting this since like last season. But Nick was merely a red herring, and I love this direction we’re taking – and I loved how the last scene with Sam and Lucifer played out. It was haunting, it was terrifying, but there was also that sympathetic streak going on.

Lucifer needs permission, being an angel and all. He is definitely playing the sympathy angle, but this line is so calmly menacing and frightening:
"I will never lie to you. I will never trick you – but you will say yes to me."
I believe him. How can you not? The question still remains though, does Sam? Will Sam tell Dean this news about him being Lucifer’s true vessel? With him learning and growing from his past mistakes you’d think this would be the first thing he does in telling his brother immediately about this incident. Or do you think he’ll be too scared, that involving his brother would mean placing his brother in danger? Will Sam make those same mistakes again by going at this alone?

I absolutely adore this direction the show is taking in regards to the brothers being chosen vessels of two very powerful celestial beings, of having always been on this path in revelation to their destinies. And obviously, they won’t give their consent, and quite frankly I like the thought that the brothers will hold their ground and refuse any kind of consent, giving the angels a huge “fuck you” and handle this Apocalypse differently than how it was intended.

But honestly? I kind of like the idea of a brother versus brother showdown. I had wanted this since like, last season. A huge battle confrontation between Sam and Dean, something that was initiated by this war and it just...gives me chills of anticipation. How all of this will play out, if they are going to be forced to consent or whatever, I am looking forward to seeing it. And with this being the final season as I’m thinking it will be, what else for the show to go out with a big bang like this? Seriously. So fucking awesome.


God Is Dead...Or Is He?

Raphael gave the other startling revelation in this episode, with him telling Castiel during his interrogation that God is dead, and the possibility of his resurrection was probably by Lucifer because of his release, he wants to call back all rebelling angels that defied Heaven and to join his side. Castiel was close to believing this to be true, seeing his crestfallen expression, and he would have if Dean hadn’t interjected with giving him more confidence that perhaps Raphael was lying and bullshitting them.

Quite frankly, I do think Raphael was lying, or at least giving his own speculations for what is happening because really, the angels don’t really know. They are giving their own interpretations of what is occurring, as some angels hardly were in "the know" of what Heaven was truly planning. Perhaps some have given into such a conclusion that God may very well be gone.

Though Raphael was badass and hardcore, like whoa, there was also a bit of sympathizing when he was talking about Heaven and the nonexistence of God. About how all in Heaven are tired, exhausted of waiting around with no real leader, with no clear orders from an Almighty, of possibly living underneath an entire lie – and wanting Paradise on Earth, hence wanting the Apocalypse to happen so they can have their Paradise, so everything can be just as the angels want it to be. You could tell that these angels are just tired of waiting around and want to do something about it, instead of waiting for whatever higher chain of command that may very well be a pipe dream. It’s actually sad and devastating that even archangels, the fiercest of Heaven’s army, doubt God. Only Castiel has full belief anymore, and while I am happy for him it’s still sad.

Definite His Dark Materials paralleling happening here, which I like because it adds the complexity of what is happening in Heaven and where some of the angels stand, but I also want more angels like Castiel to be featured, to not give up having faith in their Father despite all that is happening. What about the supposed four angels that have seen God’s true form? Wouldn’t that be the second kind of mission if Castiel were to find where God is, to locate where those other four angels (if still alive, that is) are for definitive answers? Or was that just something Heaven claimed to keep the other angels in line? I wouldn’t doubt they would do that, but still you never know.

I also like both possibilities of either God or Lucifer having resurrected Castiel, as well as saving the boys (especially since Sam is Lucifer’s true vessel, he would want to save him and thank him when he got the chance). But it’s all up in the air for right now. I doubt that Lucifer had anything to do with Castiel’s resurrection, and it would be devastating for him if that were the cold hard truth. He already looked shattered by the very thought of it. But if Lucifer could do that, would that mean he could resurrect all other angels that rebelled and died, a.k.a. Uriel for example? That would be interesting, indeed.

For the show itself, I don’t want God to be dead, but I don’t want God to be personified either. I’ve heard arguments that if they bring in Lucifer they have to bring in God, and they have for the latter part, but only in discussion.

I want God to be purely a metaphysical presence, a presence that is everywhere and cannot interfere with the natural order of things, but does have plans for every single one of His creations. I do truly believe, ever since last season, that everything that has happened is for a reason and a purpose. It’s interesting when Raphael was mentioning the 20th Century, how everything went downhill and believes that the 21st isn’t going to be any better – because all other centuries there have been horrific events there, too. History repeats itself, mankind’s true nature always asserts itself; being angels they should know this...but maybe that is why they want to take control for once.

I may have more meta regarding the presence and faith of God in Supernatural, but I just felt like I should mention this because faith and belief in something, not necessarily in a particular deity, is very strong in this show. Whether it's faith in oneself, in family, in friendship, in the resilience of humanity, whatever. So, yeah.


Memorable Moments From The Episode:

++ Jared Padalecki shirtless being the first things we see, definite fanservice right there. Though did anyone else notice that the protection sigil tattoo has moved slightly from where it was, or am I imagining things? Also, JESSICA! Despite her not really being Jessica, as revealed in the end that it was Lucifer projecting that image in Sam's dream (I TOTES CALLED IT!), I still love Sam/Jessica, like so fucking much. They are love. ♥

++ Opening montage was so awesome! I loved interweaving the boys taking on their separate lives. Sam trying to have a normal job that isn’t hunting, Dean going off by himself without his brother; the cleaning up of the tables and Dean wiping off his baby from the vampire he just killed, nicely done. I loved it.

++ “EAT IT, TWILIGHT!” BEST SLAM OF THE TWATLIGHT SERIES! ILU DEAN. NO, WAIT, I LOVE YOU SHOW FOR DISSING TWILIGHT! BWAHAHA! It does make you wonder if Dean has actually tried reading about the books or has heard about them and makes a disgusted face with the “Vampires that sparkle? Really?” Does it make me a bad person to want Dean to decapitate Edward’s head? No? Okay, just checking, because you know he totally would instantly.

++ PERSONAL SPACE, WHAT PERSONAL SPACE?! XD I do like that they’ve had private conversations about the personal space issue – which really isn’t an issue, at least to me, because the closer the better. Hee.

++ I love how Castiel is concerned that Sam is not there. SEE FANDOM, HE CARES ABOUT THE BROTHERS. SO SHUT THE FUCK UP.

++ LOL Dean making pop culture references and Castiel not getting them, his frowny-confused face is too adorable, as is Dean’s mental facepalm.

++ Awww, Castiel saying “please” for Dean to help him. ♥ ♥

++ “Last time you zapped me somewhere, I didn’t poop for a week.” LOL DEAN HAS THE BEST LINES THIS EPISODE! And Castiel’s expression was lolarious.

++ Okay, I really liked that Lindsay girl. The actress was great in that role, and I’m looking at people’s reactions and, of course, they’re all like dismissive of her the second she appeared on the screen. This episode was about the boys being separated but also trying to find new ground in their different paths, and that means making friends. I can definitely see Lindsay being a female pal to him, even if he lies to her about who he really is (which, Keith? Really Sam? LOL) Besides, she was more of a beacon of hope because she’s three years sober but works at a bar – this could be a silver lining to Sam that when he has that kind of willpower over the temptations, he can return to hunting again without it being distracting.

++ CASTIEL RIDING SHOTGUN! \O/

++ DEAN FIXING CASTIEL’S TIE AND BUTTONING UP HIS SUIT = TOTALLY WAS CALLED BY FANDOM WITHOUT REALIZING IT WOULD BECOME CANON! THIS IS DEFINITELY PULLED FROM FANFIC, I SWEAR TO GOD. IT WAS SOOOO CUTE!

++ LOL CASTIEL HOLDING THE BADGE UPSIDE DOWN! ILU CASTIEL, NEVER CHANGE FROM YOUR SOCIALLY AWKWARD WAYS.

++ Castiel is the lousiest fake FBI agent ever, totally not subtle at all. “Angels and demons” I was half expecting Dean to make an Angels and Demons reference, but alas it didn’t come. JUST THIS SCENE IS TOO MUCH, OMG THE ADORABLENESS!

++ “Is that what’s going to happen to me when Michael jumps my bones” “It’ll be worse” D: GEE THANKS CAS, VERY REASSURING THERE. But I doubt that Castiel wants Dean to be taken over by Michael just as Dean doesn’t want to be, and I think if anything he’ll want to prevent him from consenting to anything of that sort.

++ STUPID HUNTERS ARE STUPID. AND IRRATIONAL. AND STUPID.

++ LOL SEX TALK SCENE BETWEEN DEAN AND CASTIEL! CASTIEL WITH THE AWKWARD LOOK, THE NECK-RUBBING. AWWW, CAS.

++ I’m kind of wondering though – since last season we were giving details that Heaven doesn’t allow such practices, or maybe it is rather impossible for angels to fornicate. Anna had wanted to become human to experience those simple pleasures of life that angels could not have. Is the show retconning this information now? On one hand, I would be happy if we forgot everything to do with the Anna Milton storyline, as I already want to forget she ever existed to begin with; however that would mean that everything we learned about angels so far would have been misled, and I would rather have that mythology stay because it does make sense. Then again hardly know much about Heaven itself other than perceptions and that the majority of the angels are douchebags that just want things the way they see fit.

So...I’m thinking that was just Dean being Dean, thinking about booze and sex when faced in times of crisis, and maybe it slipped his mind about that kind of stuff. He wanted for Castiel to get out of that place, to experience life like he does. So, yeah, that’s what I think.

++ WHOREHOUSE OMG. Truthfully I was a bit nervous of how they were to handle this scene, because I don’t want Castiel’s purity and innocence to be taken from him. But this entire scene was…too funny to even forget. It’s overplayed in that ridiculous kind of situation because honestly, can you really see Castiel in this kind of environment? Absolutely not. But the fact that Castiel SHOULD NOT be there at all just makes this scene so hilarious and perfect, because it is just so perfect when bringing a freaking ANGEL OF THE LORD to a WHOREHOUSE JOINT. Really, truly brilliant scene.

++ "This is a den of inequity. I shouldn't be here." Which is true, but I can't help but LOL. Oh, Cas, never change bb. XDDD

++ CASTIEL’S EXPRESSIONS! THE WAY HE LOOKED TO DEAN AS IF PLEADING TO SAVE HIM! CHUGGING DOWN THE BEER LIKE “I AM NOT HERE! I AM NOT HERE! I AM NOT HERE, PLEASE GOD, GET ME OUT FROM THIS!”

++ I can't help but think: CASTIEL IS AFRAID OF BOOBIES! XDDDD

++ Castiel having freaked the girl out by reading her mind, seeing inside of her and just, yeah. That was also perfect. That was so Castiel, I nearly cried laughing because he seemed so unconcerned about the lacking of sex and more perplexed about what he did wrong in saying what was so obvious to him. He was just reassuring her and just, oh man. That was priceless shit and so adorable and endearing of him and just, yeah.

++ DEAN LAUGHING! DEAN WITH HIS ARM AROUND CASTIEL! CASTIEL SMILING BACK! OMG BFFS FOREVER, AMIRITE Y’ALL?? SO MUCH LOVE FOR THIS MOMENT I AM JUST SQUEEEEING ALL OVER THE PLACE JUST THINKING ABOUT IT! LOVE!!!

++ CASTIEL SPEAKING A FOREIGN LANGUAGE! Was it Latin? Enochian? Arabic? Something else ancient that cannot be identified? Whatever it was, it was absolutely frightening and chilling and I think he almost set my panties on fire because of it. Because this was also something else many, many countless fanfics have envisioned happening. I LOVED how he leaned in close to the vessel’s ears and just, the way it was filmed.

++ “I’m here, Raphael. Come and get me, you bastard.” THIS MADE ME FLAIL LIKE A FLAILY THING! \o/

++ RAPHAEL IS ONE BADASS MOTHERFUCKER. LIGHTNING WINGS! OMG!

++ Castiel is all terrified but standing his ground, and Dean goes directly for the sarcasm. Never change, you two.

++ “It was his idea.” LOL DEAN YOU SOLD CAS OUT, LOL.

++ Castiel looks so devastated by what Raphael said, I wanted to hug him right there.

++ “But today you’re my little bitch” CASTIEL SWORE, AGAIN! I honestly don’t understand why people are bitching about Castiel using profanity. I think it’s awesome, and I mean seriously. He is slowly becoming more human, embracing the emotions he’s feelings having rebelled and following down this path, and being influenced by Dean. It makes for great comebacks. It’s not like he’ll lose his innocence because of cursing, my goodness. IT’S HOT OKAY PEOPLE, OUR LITTLE ANGEL IS GROWING UP AND I LOVE SEEING IT. AND DEAN APPROVES, OKAY?!

++ The scene in the Impala was touching and endearing. Another meaningful moment between the two of them. Dean comparing their daddy issues, the John/God parallels. So intimate and raw and just, yeah. Their love is so true, y/y?

++ LUCIFER, YOU SNEAKY BASTARD. I KINDA LOVE YOU, YOU KNOW.

++ Sam/Lucifer now, yes?


Overall: Brilliantly fantastic and amazing episode. Going to call it one of my favorite episodes so far this season, and yes it provided everything to everyone from all sides. From having the Sam scenes and the Dean/Castiel scenes, to the fanservicing in the writing and the scenes and the dialogue, to the outcome of certain situations – I classify this episode as absolutely perfect. It was a mixture of dark shit involving Lucifer and Raphael and hilarity with the Bro Codeness of Dean/Castiel’s hilarious adventure in spending some quality time together. This was definitely a "free to be you and me" episode; Sam and Dean were allowed to be themselves, at least for a little while. Dean and Castiel were allowed to be themselves, especially around each other without the fear of pushign the wrong buttons. Plus, we got interesting revelations and more mysteries than before, which is great. It was fantastic. I loved it all, and here’s hoping for more of this to come this season. A+ show, A+.


I have to ask though, what is up with the ratings? Not just SPN but with other shows, the statistics seem lower than they normally do. And with the exceptional ratings from last season you'd think it would be equally the same. Does anyone know? :/
 
 
Current Mood: contemplativecontemplative
Current Music: Ashlee Simpson - Outta My Head (Ay Ya Ya Ya)
 
 
 
noybusiness on September 27th, 2009 04:12 am (UTC)
Wouldn’t that be the second kind of mission if Castiel were to find where God is, to locate where those other four angels (if still alive, that is) are for definitive answers?

I got the impression that Raphael was one of the four, though they didn't state it outright. Given that Cass thought he could tell them about God.

I’m kind of wondering though – since last season we were giving details that Heaven doesn’t allow such practices, or maybe it is rather impossible for angels to fornicate. Anna had wanted to become human to experience those simple pleasures of life that angels could not have. Is the show retconning this information now?

I don't think so. Angels normally can't have sex because they don't have bodies to do it in. With a human host body, there's nothing to physically prevent it. Anna went a step further, because she didn't want to be angel possessing someone, she wanted to be human.
Renée: Castiel. Bookish.rogueslayer452 on September 27th, 2009 04:35 am (UTC)
I got the impression that Raphael was one of the four, though they didn't state it outright. Given that Cass thought he could tell them about God.

That actually may be a possible theory, and if God had been absent for some time, or the four hadn't been in contact with Him, then it might be possible they are following suit with the rest. That God had abandoned them, that God may be dead, not answering to them. Though my theory is that Castiel wanted to talk to Raphael because, being an archangel, he probably knew a bit more than the others. Perhaps the four angels are more in the higher up departments.

This is something I want to show to touch up on more.

I don't think so. Angels normally can't have sex because they don't have bodies to do it in. With a human host body, there's nothing to physically prevent it. Anna went a step further, because she didn't want to be angel possessing someone, she wanted to be human.

True. It's just the scene with Dean and Castiel about the brothel and talking about sex seems a bit odd when taking it in that kind of context, even though I'm sure that Castiel wasn't embarrassed about being a virgin and more about just having such a conversation. Hence why I'm questioning whether that info was forgotten or merely left out to bring us the hilarious scene with them at the brothel and Castiel being terrified and completely flustered.
noybusiness on September 27th, 2009 04:46 am (UTC)
That actually may be a possible theory, and if God had been absent for some time, or the four hadn't been in contact with Him, then it might be possible they are following suit with the rest

Or they're behind the whole thing, because the angels below them wouldn't even know God was gone without their say-so, and most in fact didn't know this because it was covered up (at least in Season Four). So Raphael and the other three figure it devolves to them to run things in His absence and they're not happy about it.

My mother thought Lindsay needed to learn the meaning of "privacy" and "personal space". Which, a bit. But she was smart, she could sense there was something beyond the ordinary going on with Sam, and she seems to have helped his character growth.


Renée: Castiel. Guardian angel.rogueslayer452 on September 27th, 2009 05:02 am (UTC)
So Raphael and the other three figure it devolves to them to run things in His absence and they're not happy about it.

That would make sense, considering how Raphael seemed when speaking of Heaven and how everything has changed. It wouldn't be the first time angels were kept in the dark about what is happening, this can be true for archangels as well.

But she was smart, she could sense there was something beyond the ordinary going on with Sam, and she seems to have helped his character growth.

My thoughts exactly.
noybusiness on September 27th, 2009 04:38 am (UTC)
BTW, they used the archangel Raphael in the British show Hex. He was assigned to guide the protagonist Ella Dee, but he tried to make a move on her and she fought him off and told him to crawl back to God and tell Him she works alone. Good show cut down before its time.
Renée: Six. It's good to be a Cylon.rogueslayer452 on September 27th, 2009 04:51 am (UTC)
Interesting. I haven't seen Hex but I heard about it.
Virtual Insomniavirtualinsomnia on September 27th, 2009 04:44 am (UTC)
Agreeing with the previous commenter...

Wouldn’t that be the second kind of mission if Castiel were to find where God is, to locate where those other four angels (if still alive, that is) are for definitive answers?

I got the impression that Raphael was one of the four, though they didn't state it outright. Given that Cass thought he could tell them about God.


I, too, assumed Raphael was one of the 4. Actually, the 4 should be Raphael, Michael, Gabriel and Uriel if you follow actual religious stuff, cuz they were the top dog angels (the 7 archangels were Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, Uriel, Raguel, Zerachiel and Remiel, with the top 4 being Mike, Gabe, Raph and Uri). However, the show already changed up Uriel's backstory by making him an underling to Cas and Anna at various times, so I suppose anything goes? *shrugs*
Renée: Castiel. Guardian angel.rogueslayer452 on September 27th, 2009 04:50 am (UTC)
However, the show already changed up Uriel's backstory by making him an underling to Cas and Anna at various times, so I suppose anything goes? *shrugs*

Exactly. This is why I'm all for speculation as regarding who the four angels are, whether they are all archangels or more of the higher ups or just random angels chosen. Although the show hasn't really mentioned the four angels that have seen God since 4.10 and I would like that to be revisited at some point. It is very possible that Raphael was of the four, but I'm holding out until we get more further information.
noybusiness on September 27th, 2009 05:00 am (UTC)
Maybe it's Raphael, Michael, Gabriel, and Zachariah. That's assuming Anna wasn't counting Lucifer. I'm hoping we find out sometime.
Virtual Insomniavirtualinsomnia on September 27th, 2009 04:53 am (UTC)
Oh, and also? THIS.

First of all, let me just say that Dean hanging out with Castiel is not replacing Sam.

THANK YOU! I'm so tired of all the "OMG CAS IS REPLACING SAM!!!" crap. Just no. If anything, this episode showed how he COULDN'T replace Sam, because as cute as he was trying to be a fake FBI agent, he totally sucked at it. Cas will never replace Sam in Dean's life. He's just a friend. (Maybe boyfriend? A girl can hope right? *g*) DEAN IS ALLOWED TO HAVE FRIENDS OTHER THAN SAM, PEOPLE. Codependency is not actually a good, healthy thing, okay? It's good to have other people in one's social circle. Hell, it's good to actually HAVE a social circle, period. Sheesh.

Ahem. Sorry, got a little ranty there, lol. But yes, I agree with you like 200% and then some!!!
noybusiness on September 27th, 2009 05:03 am (UTC)
Codependency is not actually a good, healthy thing, okay?

This. If people really love Dean and Sam, they shouldn't want to them remain in a place where they're both incomplete.
Renée: Dean/Castiel. Peaceful.rogueslayer452 on September 27th, 2009 05:23 am (UTC)
DEAN IS ALLOWED TO HAVE FRIENDS OTHER THAN SAM, PEOPLE. Codependency is not actually a good, healthy thing, okay? It's good to have other people in one's social circle. Hell, it's good to actually HAVE a social circle, period. Sheesh.

Exactly. It is unrealistic and unhealthy for them to stay the way they were and if they had gone down the similar road like in season four, all the suppressed emotions will explode down the line and they would have the same fight they had before. They both need their space, to figure themselves out, and they both can have friends outside of their brotherly bond. It IS POSSIBLE for them to have friends, Dean especially. Castiel fits that category very well, and they BOTH need this friendship.

Maybe boyfriend? A girl can hope right? *g*

Hee, I completely agree. After this episode they are not just BFFs, they are totally boyfriends. ♥
Tracy: Dean/Cas Happy Togetheralexwhitman25 on September 27th, 2009 05:30 am (UTC)
YES! to so much of this post.

I have a real problem with the people that have a problem with the evolution of Cas. He is locked out of heaven and spending his time with humanity. Even last season when he was going back and forth, he was developing empathy and emotions. Now that he is full force in the human world it only makes sense for him to explore more human experiences and try out more human characteristics. The character is growing and evolving to fit the story. And like we both were saying, hanging out with Dean has started to run off on him. He looks to Dean as someone he trusts and respects and he is emulating some of those characteristics. I swear this fandom is so freaking scared of any sort of growth or change, it's ridic.

Just like all the OMG CAS IS REPLACING SAM BS. Um, no. Dean can have other people that he is close to in his life than Sam. He should have other people. So should Sam. Co-dependancy to that degree is bad, mmmkay? It was so refreshing to see Dean actually enjoying the hunt and having the weight off his shoulders again. He has led his life since the age of four with his main concern being about everyone but himself. Seeing him realize that he can stand on his own and be okay with it is awesome and such growth and I'm so effing proud of him.

I love that Sam is Lucifer's vessel. It's been hinted at forever and I'm glad they went there. I really hope this is the last season cause I think they could really go out with a bang with what's on the table.


As far as the ratings, they are just up against such powerhouse shows - The Office, Grey's, Fringe (which has a similar slant and crossover fanbase), CSI. CW ratings are way down across the board. Now that the shows have all premiered, I'm curious to see if more people will come back to watching the show live. A lot of people recorded SPN to see the Fringe or Grey's premiere. SPN is one of those shows that is big with DVRing. I'm not really worried, especially as I kinda want this to be the lsat season.
Renée: Dean/Castiel. Peaceful.rogueslayer452 on September 27th, 2009 10:27 pm (UTC)
The character is growing and evolving to fit the story. And like we both were saying, hanging out with Dean has started to run off on him. He looks to Dean as someone he trusts and respects and he is emulating some of those characteristics.

I completely agree. I have enjoyed Castiel's character arc since last season, with him struggling between right and wrong and orders and what he believes is right, and now it's expanding with him struggling with keeping it all together having only his strong faith in God and Dean right alongside him, trusting him. It just seems like the natural progression to what is known as character development, the evolution of Castiel is the most intriguing to me because he left everything he's ever known behind. For Dean. He now has to make do with being cut off from Heaven, adapting to humanity's surroundings (which is why I lol'd so hard at the FBI scene and the brothel scene, just seeing him attempt to fit into human society!)

Him swearing, for example, is him picking up slang and word usage by Dean, who as you said trust and respects. It's the evolution and adaptation of his character, and I personally found it endearing. As did Dean, he looked so proud of his angel. ;)

The fact that anyone could ever hate Castiel in any way baffles me. How can someone hate that adorable, socially awkward yet fiercest badass angel? People who do that merely out of spite have no soul, I am fully convinced of this.

He has led his life since the age of four with his main concern being about everyone but himself. Seeing him realize that he can stand on his own and be okay with it is awesome and such growth and I'm so effing proud of him.

This, so much word to this. ♥ I really wish fandom would get that and see this separation of the brothers and Dean's relationship with Castiel as a good thing for all of them, but alas some do not. And that's pitiful and sad, to be honest. But oh well.

I seriously squeed with glee when it was officially confirmed in this episode that Sam is Lucifer's vessel. THIS IS EVEN BETTER THAN I EVER IMAGINED IT WOULD BE, NGL! I am super excited for the rest of the season now. :DD

Thank you for the reassurance of the ratings. Many shows were premiering in the last few weeks, so many shows at once it's understandable how ratings can be wonky in the beginning. I think I'm just a tad worried about SPN, mainly because last season it had big hits in ratings (the majority of those statistics came from all of Castiel's episodes, which I find amusing) but we can't judge too quickly at this point. I guess I was a bit disappointed that the premiere didn't do as well, nor the last two episodes, particularly since they were frakking awesome.

I also want this to be SPN's last season. It seems right to end it after this, because what else can top the Apocalypse? Seriously. A Dean/Castiel spinoff, perhaps? *pleading eyes to Kripke*
noybusiness on September 28th, 2009 12:44 am (UTC)
I want them to end with this season so the show can end with the end of Kripke's envisioned story, instead of possibly meandering if it goes on too long.

I thought it would be cool if Sam was meant to be Lucifer's vessel, but didn't actually expect it to happen. Now I want some kind of compare and contrast between Dean and Sam's relationship and Michael and Lucifer's relationship.

They seem to be setting up a Dean/Michael vs. Sam/Lucifer showdown, but since our boys are more than meat puppets, I get the feeling this will be subverted in some way.
Renée: Castiel. Bookish.rogueslayer452 on September 28th, 2009 03:22 am (UTC)
Yeah, my thoughts precisely. Kripke wants to end the show with a big bang and on top, so let him do so without adding unnecessary seasons after this one. As far as I'm concerned, season four and season five are wrapping everything up and I love it.

There are definite parallels between Sam/Dean and Michael/Lucifer, which is very interesting.

Oh, the boys will definitely give the ultimate "fuck you" to the angel's plans of them being vessels. No doubts about it.
bold_seer: tie and coatbold_seer on September 27th, 2009 02:55 pm (UTC)
For the show itself, I don’t want God to be dead, but I don’t want God to be personified either.

Neither do I, neither do I. I may change my mind if He's played by Morgan Freeman.

SEE FANDOM, HE CARES ABOUT THE BROTHERS. SO SHUT THE FUCK UP.

Yes!

I would be happy if we forgot everything to do with the Anna Milton storyline, as I already want to forget she ever existed to begin with

Ahahah! The actress is lovely, but I sort of agree with you there. I didn’t, however, get the feeling that the show was retconning any info.

Truthfully I was a bit nervous of how they were to handle this scene, because I don’t want Castiel’s purity and innocence to be taken from him.

I was really nervous, because it could’ve been – well, you know. But it was great.

More Sam/Lucifer scenes, please!
Renée: Castiel. Guardian angel.rogueslayer452 on September 27th, 2009 09:24 pm (UTC)
Hee, yes, Morgan Freeman as God in this show would be lovely. XD

Ahahah! The actress is lovely, but I sort of agree with you there. I didn’t, however, get the feeling that the show was retconning any info.

Thinking about it, I'm in agreement that the show didn't really retcon anything either. But the background of it hasn't been mentioned since that one episode either, from what I can tell anyway (aside from angels and emotions thing, primarily with Castiel who is experiencing more and more human feeling every day). But yeah, that's just my thoughts when I went back to the episode and wondered about certain things is all. SPN is not the kind of show that goes back on anything involving their mytharc, so yeah.

That scene really was great, wasn't it? So well handled, and I was loling the entire time because Misha does the best facial expressions. XD

Sam/Lucifer is practically canon now, too. MOAR SCENES WITH THEM PLZ SHOW, KTHX!
Beth, just Beth: spn// castiel & dean | the end is nighsecondstar on September 27th, 2009 04:35 pm (UTC)
this episode seriously made my LIFE. I think it is my favorite yet. NGL.
Renée: Castiel. Cute and sneaky.rogueslayer452 on September 27th, 2009 09:10 pm (UTC)
MINE TOO! :D It was a mixture of grim plotty things but also SO MUCH HILARIOUS FUN! XD I am continuing to smile and giggle at just the whole episode even now! I loved it.
eido on September 28th, 2009 03:55 am (UTC)
PERSONAL SPACE, WHAT PERSONAL SPACE?! XD I do like that they’ve had private conversations about the personal space issue – which really isn’t an issue, at least to me

It's apparently not that much of an issue for Dean either despite that apparent discussion they had. lol He's the one that kept initiating the touching through most of the ep. The shirt-buttoning and tie-straightening (*FLAILS*), grabbing his arm at different times and, of course, putting his arm around Cas' shoulders.

I also loved the hell out of the confrontation with Raphael. Raphael being awesome and seemed like he'd be one way at first (terrifying and creepy), but after awhile seems like he has more dimension than most of the other angels (powerful, smug, megalomaniacal dick). However, I really loved how Dean and Cas kept going to each other's defense, despite the danger they were both facing. Raphael threatened Cas, Dean interjected saying he wouldn't because he'd be too afraid God wouldn't like Cas getting hurt/killed again (Dean said essentially the same thing to Uriel back in ITGPSW when Uriel threatened the town). Raphael threatened Dean, Cas answered with, "You won't kill him. You wouldn't dare." Although I think Cas was definitely scared Raphael may just try, or hurt Dean or take him to Michael, and he would have been powerless to stop him. You could hear that fear in his voice, or at least that's how it sounded to me. Afraid, but still pissed off that Raph might try to hurt his Dean. I was LMAO at the end though when Dean was pretty much rendered Cas' sidekick after Cas got the BAMF line ("Maybe one day, but today you're my little bitch.") and Dean got the sidekick's line ("What he said!"). heeee
Renée: Dean/Castiel. Peaceful.rogueslayer452 on September 28th, 2009 01:44 pm (UTC)
That is so true! He was totally invading Castiel's personal space throughout most of the episode. Oh Dean, how you so are not subtle. ;p

I find Raphael very intriguing, not only was this the first archangel personified on the show (and really, how cool was he with those lightning wings and fierce hardcore tone?), but in the way he presented himself with his views. He truly believed in what he was saying about Heaven and Earth and God, but sounded so depressed at the same time. Dimensions and layers, all from that scene, and I loved it. He should return.

However, I really loved how Dean and Cas kept going to each other's defense, despite the danger they were both facing.

Exactly, another reason why I adored their confrontation. It added more layers to their growing bond and trust with each other, and I loved seeing that. This whole episode was based on how comfortable and at ease they are in each others presence, and the protectiveness they were of the other. We already know that Castiel will do anything for Dean, but it's nice to have Dean do the same thing for Castiel. I love them together, I truly do. ♥

Hee, Castiel totally had the upper hand in this episode, and that line he gave? So badass. He should do that more often. Definitely an upgrade since last season. :)
eido on September 28th, 2009 03:37 pm (UTC)
really, how cool was he with those lightning wings and fierce hardcore tone?

Even if they blew their wad on the effects in this ep, it was money well spent. So fierce! The inner 90s gamerkid kept thinking Raiden from the "Mortal Kombat" games. LOL He was just missing the straw hat. Seriously though, he was rocking every element in that scene. Fire (lightning and the fire ring I suppose but that wasn't Raph's doing), Water (rain), Air (the wind), all that was missing was a decent rep of Earth.

in the way he presented himself with his views. He truly believed in what he was saying about Heaven and Earth and God, but sounded so depressed at the same time.

We must have more Raphael! He sounded so lost and broken-hearted in the end. This super-powerful being with tears in his eyes, just missing his father and if an archangel feels that way, I'd imagine a good chunk of the other angels we haven't seen do too (so, hopefully, it's not just a bunch of smug bastard Zachariahs or crazy, murdering zealots like Uriel up on Heaven). Some of them are just really, really burned out. Although trying to force utopia isn't the answer, kids. They've never read Huxley or Orwell in Heaven, have they? I hope Cas can convince him to defect, it would be awesome they had an archangel on their side.

This whole episode was based on how comfortable and at ease they are in each others presence

Something I believe was there under the surface back last season as far back as ITGPSW but couldn't quite manifest since Cas was so very alien and on the wrong side of the fence. Now that they're on the same side and Cas is stuck on Earth, the playing field is more even. They're also further developing the common ground (the absent fathers). I'd also say that, as innocent Cas is to the human experience, this is also pretty new territory for Dean too. This relationship outside of Sam where he's genuinely comfortable and can be open about his life/problems (hopefully!) without turning out the friend is evil (Gordon, the Siren or Sam's Ruby etc). They had this intense supernatural connection right out of the gate (Cas saved him from Hell), it's just got to translate a more mundane (and accessible) way too.

I loved too how Dean is stand-offish at the beginning of the ep, reluctant to help, as he tends to be with people who aren't his family and keeps at arms length. Yet Cas keeps breaking through Dean's defenses. First his very existence rocks Dean's whole worldview about faith and God (and He actually exists or existed), but now he's actually within real friend territory. For someone that doesn't understand humanity much at all, he managed to do what many humans cannot and make a friend out of Dean Winchester.

Then again, maybe it's because Cas isn't human, the way he doesn't fit in, is what appeals to Dean. Dean, despite all the white-picket-fence fantasies he's had, never really quite fits into 'normal' either. In that way, he was never really like Sam, who had his life at Stanford. We're reminded of it in FTBYAM in a big way. Sam is still capable of living a normal life, we were even reminded of Jess (though she was an illusion) it was the supernatural that interrupted that normal life again, just like in the Pilot. In the meantime, Dean is brutally killing a vampire. Yet, almost opposite of Sam, Dean's hunting is interrupted by Castiel to summon an archangel (by no means a 'normal' friend request, Dean/Cas is still thoroughly entrenched in the supernatural world), but it led to such a mundane, comedic guys' night out scene. Dean's supernatural life is interrupted by normal, but the interruption was a welcome one ("I haven't laughed that hard in years"). Sam's interruption? Not so welcome, but sadly seems necessary since he can't leave the supernatural world yet. Even if part of him may want to / it might be better for him if he does. Because Dean is irrevocably part of that world and Sam can't be without Dean, vice versa.

We already know that Castiel will do anything for Dean, but it's nice to have Dean do the same thing for Castiel.

I swear the ep was like an answer to "Lucifer Rising". When Dean needed Castiel so badly, but now it's Cas who needs Dean.
tiburonstiburons on September 28th, 2009 02:47 pm (UTC)
Hi I followed your meta from another SPN journal and I so agree with so many of your points.



Especially this one "I love how Castiel is concerned that Sam is not there. SEE FANDOM, HE CARES ABOUT THE BROTHERS. SO SHUT THE FUCK UP"

I was thinking the same thing. Castiel likes Sam too. He wouldn't have put the protective thing on his ribs too if he didn't. Argh I can't stand all this back and forth with the fandom. Hey everyone just get over it.


Though I might be in the minority but I hope Sam tells Lucifer to go screw himself and not give his consent but I do love bad ass Sam so I am excited about this week episode in which I think we get to see what Sam would be like if he gave his consent.

Love reading your thoughts. It is always great to read well thought out opinions not ugh sam sucks or dean is a jerk.

As for the low numbers I guess people aren't watching TV as much? Not sure why because I think this season is rocking so far.
Renée: Castiel. Guardian angel.rogueslayer452 on September 28th, 2009 10:51 pm (UTC)
I was thinking the same thing. Castiel likes Sam too. He wouldn't have put the protective thing on his ribs too if he didn't. Argh I can't stand all this back and forth with the fandom. Hey everyone just get over it.

It's clearly evident that Castiel likes Sam and has sympathies for him despite his unfortunate nature of getting tainted with demon blood. In 4.07 when Sam first meets Castiel he was very kind to him, and in the deleted scene of "On The Head Of A Pin" Castiel regards his liking and sympathies for Sam just as he does with Dean. Obviously he and Dean have more of a connection, but he's not excluding the other. I get the feeling that, knowing that horrible feeling of losing a brother to betrayal, Castiel wants Sam and Dean to stay together and not stray.

Though I might be in the minority but I hope Sam tells Lucifer to go screw himself and not give his consent but I do love bad ass Sam so I am excited about this week episode in which I think we get to see what Sam would be like if he gave his consent.

I think the majority might agree with you, since I've seen plenty of arguments going against the boys consenting to become vessels. Especially Sam. Which is why I don't believe the boys will ever agree to give their permission to these particular angels, and find alternative ways of defeating Lucifer at their own game. Nonetheless, it would be interesting to see what might happen if one of them did while the other is trying to stop it from happening. Case in point, the next upcoming episode showing us a possible future where Sam did consent (giving an interpretation of one of my series finale theories of Dean defeating Lucifer by possibly killing Sam). Should be fascinating.

Love reading your thoughts. It is always great to read well thought out opinions not ugh sam sucks or dean is a jerk.

Yeah, it seems a lot of people just post their initial knee-jerk reactions and that's it, which gets irritating because fandom has now been about bitching about something. Either hating Kripke for splitting up the boys or hating Castiel for being a regular now or hating Dean because he's hanging out with Castiel, and even hating other fans because they like Sam and Dean being apart. It's ridiculous.

As for the low numbers I guess people aren't watching TV as much? Not sure why because I think this season is rocking so far.

In truth, many people are TiVoing and downloading or watching online, which is the best alternative of watching a show when you can't do so in real time. However, that is not how the ratings systems work when they really should (times are changing, the ratings system should too, just saying). Though the majority of possible alternatives are DVR statistics, which aside from Nielsen ratings are best at calculating the percentage of people watching want. But even with that, it's still tricky.
Kalena: spn | castiel has a choicekalena_henden on September 28th, 2009 10:53 pm (UTC)
because I don’t want Castiel’s purity and innocence to be taken from him.
ME EITHER! I'm still not convinced that Castiel did anything wrong by choosing to try to stop the apocalypse. (Though he did kill his brothers to save the Winchesters after coming back from the dead but this is war.) He may have rebelled against Heaven but to fall you must rebel against God. Since Castiel is seeking God with the conviction that he could possibly help....why would you look for some you've rebelled against for help? Heaven seems to be divided into more than one faction at the moment. There are some, like Raphael & Zachariah, who are trying to bring Paradise. But Uriel and those he converted wanted to start the apocalypse to reunite with their brother Lucifer. Also, like you pointed out, there are probably some angels who still believe God is out there but haven't left Heaven yet because they are scared of disobedience and being killed.

Love bad-ass Castiel with his Dean!speak. Anger is the first emotion that Castiel truly understands. And OMG the look of terror in the brothel!!! ROFL

Nope, I do not believe Lucifer. Not for one darn second. It's sounds like truth but there's something in my core that twinges while I try to put my finger on what's wrong. It's not what Lucider says, it's what he's selectively withholding that terrifies me. He has secrets, dark ones. Plans he's keeping to himself. So how can trust him? Has everyone forgotten that Lucifer is the one who created the demons who ravage the earth that killed the hunters who in turn tried to blame it on Sam? Yes, Sam played his part and must accept responsibility for his choices. But Sam is right, he can change and he's inhertently evil. Also, Sam chose not to kill the last of the special kids and was killed himself for this noble choice. If anyone is Lucifer's true vessel, it's the guy who killed Sam. Why doesn't Lucifer bring him back from the dead?

Sam/Lucifer reminds me of Harry/Voldemort in the sense of destiny vs. freewill. I love when Dumbledore tells Harry, "It is our choices that define us." Lucifer had the freewill to choose to defy God. But he's trying to pull the destiny card on Sam. Maybe the angels are more like humans than they realize.

The fandom has been acurrately predicting a ton of stuff lately. I recently read a quote, I believe from Jane Espenson, that fans who are so in tune with a show will often write plots similiar to what the writer's room comes up with. Now that SPN has 4 seasons of backstory, we see what direction things are moving.

Yeah, I don't get what's up with the ratings at all. I have a huge problem with Nielsen's ridiculously small sample size because of the nature of today's niche programming and a million cable channels that split up the viewing audience. On the plus side, Supernatural looks like its going to be the #2 scripted show on The CW for the week!
Kalenakalena_henden on September 28th, 2009 10:56 pm (UTC)
But Sam is right, he can change and he's inhertently evil.
Whoops! That's supposed to be "NOT inhertently evil." [face palm]
Renée: Castiel. Bookish.rogueslayer452 on September 29th, 2009 05:46 am (UTC)
He may have rebelled against Heaven but to fall you must rebel against God. Since Castiel is seeking God with the conviction that he could possibly help....why would you look for some you've rebelled against for help? Heaven seems to be divided into more than one faction at the moment.

Heaven is most definitely divided into multiple fractions, which I find incredibly fascinating. I find it amazing that out of all the angels we've seen, Castiel is the only one that truly has kept his faith in God strong. It's what he relies on the most, and that's one of things I admire about Castiel that despite everything, of him disobeying orders and defying Heaven, he still hasn't given up on God and intends to find Him. His dedication to that mission and his devotion to Dean is so adorable and endearing.

Love bad-ass Castiel with his Dean!speak. Anger is the first emotion that Castiel truly understands. And OMG the look of terror in the brothel!!! ROFL

I loved everything about Castiel in this episode, how he's attempting at adapting to the human world. Picking up colloquialisms and Dean's way of speech, I love him discovering more of humanity and slowly being humanized in this manner. It's too hilarious and adorable all at once. I laughed SO HARD at his expressions at the brothel! Never change, Castiel bb. ♥

And you gotta love how fierce he's gotten since he returned. From the kung fu skills to his anger and ability to stand up to an archangel, Castiel has grown himself a stronger backbone and I am loving it.

It's not what Lucifer says, it's what he's selectively withholding that terrifies me. He has secrets, dark ones. Plans he's keeping to himself. So how can trust him?

I'm not saying that I believe Lucifer to tell everything truthfully, but I believe him when he states such things so terrifyingly calm and actually is playing the manipulation card. Angels are known for not revealing what they are truly planning, see Zachariah and Uriel from last season and their truest intentions. Lucifer is no different, but I really am terrified by the sympathetic card he's also playing, and that's something that is so cunning, so manipulative that at some point whatever he's saying just might seem truth.

I'm very interested in what makes Sam so special, and why it always had to be him. That statement has been repeated many, many times throughout the show. So I wonder if this falls into the inevitable destiny category, that no matter what Sam tries to do it always ends up heading towards the path he's always meant to take.

I recently read a quote, I believe from Jane Espenson, that fans who are so in tune with a show will often write plots similiar to what the writer's room comes up with. Now that SPN has 4 seasons of backstory, we see what direction things are moving.

That is definitely very true, especially when you see where the writers are going in a specific direction. Since last season with the introduction of theological elements to the mytharc I had predicted that the angels were following through with what happens in Revelation, that they would probably want the Apocalypse to occur. I even predicted that Uriel was going to betray Heaven or fall because of his disdain for humanity. It just seems natural when one understands the direction of the story, especially with many seasons of knowing what might to expect. So yes, that is very accurate to how dedicated fans operate.

I also love Jane Espenson and her inquiries of writing and fans so, yeah. :)

The ratings systems are so jacked up, you'd think they would make alternative ways of calculating how people view certain shows especially with all our technological advancements of watching or downloading online. I know there are DVR statistics but, that doesn't seem to be enough. But nevertheless, I am happy that SPN has lasted this long.
i dream of colors that have never been seen: pic#93067331etoile444 on September 28th, 2009 11:26 pm (UTC)
Yep! Love what you wrote and agree!!!! I love the direction the show is going in...I'm riding the wave no matter what, but I am enjoying it too. Enjoying it a lot!

Besides, she was more of a beacon of hope because she’s three years sober but works at a bar – this could be a silver lining to Sam that when he has that kind of willpower over the temptations, he can return to hunting again without it being distracting.

I was thinking that about her too. There she is day in and day out surrounded by temptation and she still stands strong. Inspiration that Sam will learn to function around demon blood (given time). Also, the call out to Twilight was likely fan service and damn funny, but the Twilight vampires are vegetarians. They are tempted every day to give in and drink blood, so in a way, that too, is symbolic of Sam's ability to overcome his addiction.

Finally, that blood splatter reminding us of "Bloodlust" was likely purposeful, again reminding us of Lenore who fought her own blood lust. And also reminding us of Dean's barely checked greif at that time and now.
Renée: SPN. Crossroads Demon.rogueslayer452 on September 29th, 2009 02:39 am (UTC)
the call out to Twilight was likely fan service and damn funny, but the Twilight vampires are vegetarians. They are tempted every day to give in and drink blood, so in a way, that too, is symbolic of Sam's ability to overcome his addiction.

That's a very interesting observation. It wouldn't be unlike Kripke to add a bit of symbolism with that and with connecting Lenore and her resistance to human blood, and Lindsay resisting alcohol. This just means that there may be hope for Sam. Which, of course there will be, he just needs to realize that himself. And in the episode itself Sam spat out the demon blood the hunters forced at him. Plenty of paralleling and connections. Very fascinating.
casey: spn dean winchestercasey28 on September 29th, 2009 03:41 am (UTC)
This is about finding friendship, someone to trust without secrets

I'm really curious how Dean would feel if he knew that Castiel let Sam out of the panic room.
Renée: Dean/Castiel. Forgiven.rogueslayer452 on September 29th, 2009 03:52 am (UTC)
Honestly, while I think he may be questioning of it Dean might understand based on the evidence that Castiel was underneath a microscope of his superiors in Heaven. Besides, Sam being let out from the panic room was all the more inevitable no matter what happened.
pretty much the nostalgia chick: i can explain!vikki on November 8th, 2009 12:09 am (UTC)
Okay, waaaay late to the party, but while I usually watch the entire season post-airing I was dragged back to watch happily thanks to screencaps of Castiel holding his FBI badge upside-down ... so I figure an (excellent) meta on this episode is a good place to leap headfirst into some discussions. =D

I ... get the feeling that Castiel might be the only angel 'in the right' from this season - now somehow restored, whether by God or some other means, and outside the angelic hierarchy, he seems to be in the best position to exercise his faith that God is somewhere out there and to go about trying to find Him. And on that note!

maybe it is rather impossible for angels to fornicate

In the Bible, Angels having babies with humans resulted in the Nephilim, which were like superhumans and abominations against God. They were one of the reasons why God brought down the Great Flood and saved only Noah and his family. So it's totally possible to fornicate (presuming SPN falls in line with the Bible in this), but it's Not An Okay Thing To Do. Which puts a whole other spin on Castiel's reaction to the whorehouse! (And his comment to Dean: "I haven't had occasion." What's that about? OH CAS DON'T LIE YOU TOTES HAD A CRUSH ON ANGEL ANNA DIDN'T YOU.)

Anyway! Just some thinky thoughts for you. Off to read the comments!
Renée: Castiel. Bookish.rogueslayer452 on November 8th, 2009 12:39 am (UTC)
It's never too late to join the party! The more talk about episodes, even if they've already aired, the better. :D

I ... get the feeling that Castiel might be the only angel 'in the right' from this season - now somehow restored, whether by God or some other means, and outside the angelic hierarchy, he seems to be in the best position to exercise his faith that God

Yeah, and that's precisely what I'm thinking. It's why I'm loving his arc this season most of all, last season I loved his personal conflict with himself, torn between what he feels is right and obeying orders. Now, with being cut off from Heaven, he can fully exercise his faith in God and try to do what Heaven probably wouldn't want him doing. I love that he's very optimistic and still holds that faith strongly in his heart, despite all odds being against him (Raphael mentioning that God is dead, it must've hurt him that another fellow angel would even believe such a thing).

It's also very reassuring about Castiel in general with his strong belief in God and wanting to find Him, I really like that this is a direction they're taking him and that he's the ONLY angel thus far that really has such optimism and faith.

In the Bible, Angels having babies with humans resulted in the Nephilim, which were like superhumans and abominations against God. They were one of the reasons why God brought down the Great Flood and saved only Noah and his family

I knew that, yes. However in terms with the mythology in Supernatural I highly doubt that would be added since they seem to not place everything that's mentioned in the Bible into the show. Although with the demon/human hybrid as seen in 5.06 it could be seen as it's possible (which would place such a spin on Castiel's "haven't had the occasion" comment, although it still seemed odd), but I don't really think all angels have such abilities or desires in Heaven to fornicate with humans or with each other. Spiritual sibling love? Possibly, but definitely not with each other.

OH CAS DON'T LIE YOU TOTES HAD A CRUSH ON ANGEL ANNA DIDN'T YOU

EWWW!! EW EW EW EW! DO NOT WANT! EW JUST, NO! D: D: D: *BRAIN BLEACH PLZ*
pretty much the nostalgia chick: i can explain!vikki on November 8th, 2009 01:04 am (UTC)
I love that he's very optimistic and still holds that faith strongly in his heart, despite all odds being against him

I also love the comfort that Dean offered him, even though Dean himself thinks that Castiel is chasing wind. ♥ It was very sweet. (Also, oh, Dean, I'm sorry but that whole scene with him claiming to have more fun with Castiel? While one could read it meaning 'recently', I also tend to read it as a full-on lie. And Castiel only puts up with it so long before leaving, then, which was ... interesting? And I think actually did a better job of driving home to Dean how much he misses Sam than anything Castiel could have said. (Also have a hard time imagining Castiel having that conversation in the first place, since Castiel isn't ... um, all that good at empathizing.))

While I found Castiel's struggle within the angelic hierarchy intriguing, it was nowhere near as compelling as our freshly-made Castiel. Like you, I have some serious issues with the Anna storyline in general: it made very little sense in the general scheme of things, although I was grateful for how it made everyone question the path of the angels. I was extremely concerned that Castiel would have also 'fallen from grace', but while he's clearly not in the good graces of the angelic upper echelons, he's still very much an angel.

This episode also served to put Castiel and Dean on the same or at least similar levels. Bobby, as much as I love him, was starting to be something of a ... trump card? A deus ex machina? There wasn't a whole lot of problems he couldn't solve or deal with. (While I dearly hope that Bobby will walk again, I'm kind of glad he can't fly to the rescue whenever the boys are in trouble.) Castiel is all set to jump into this role, but the fact that he needs Dean's help here, that he's willing to ask for it (and do it Dean's way inasmuch as Dean's Way can cut it), suggests he's not going to actually end up falling into that role.

I don't really think all angels have such abilities or desires in Heaven to fornicate with humans or with each other

Since the only word we've gotten on this is Anna (who of course sleeps with Dean before reclaiming her Grace) and Castiel (who is probably a more reliable 'narrator' on this matter), I guess it's all a matter of how you interpret that discomfort. I - I really really want it to be that Castiel is not interested and is not sure how to react to Dean's keen interest in his love life or lack of one, but I just don't quite know how to interpret it. Personally until I get word from TPTB I'm going to run with the Bible's take on this; I doubt we're going to be getting a half-angel baby running around in the series, anyway.

...... right now I just really want fic (1)what Castiel and Dean talked about on the way to Maine, (2)The Original Personal Space discussion, and (3)what Castiel was thinking about in the Den of Iniquity. Especially the last one. (I rewatched the ep just now and, uh, I think I died laughing at Castiel's little start when Dean jumps in with Cas' name for him. He looks about fit to leap out of his skin. Holy crap. *gasps for breath*)

Sorry about making you want to bleach your brain. ^^;;;
Renée: Dean/Castiel. Personal space.rogueslayer452 on November 8th, 2009 01:55 am (UTC)
I also love the comfort that Dean offered him, even though Dean himself thinks that Castiel is chasing wind. ♥ It was very sweet.

It really was. I find that kind of reassurance really strengthens their relationship even further, which makes me all warm and fuzzy inside. ♥

When Dean says that he's had more fun with Castiel I certainly deemed it as more recently because, really, since when has Dean really had time to laugh like that? Last season everything was so tense with what both brothers were going through, and he has to constantly walk on eggshells to protect his brother. With Castiel, while not on the same level as Sam because he will always be Dean's brother, this is more of the establishing a friendship kind of fun time which is good for Dean, since he's never had a true friend before.

So I don't necessarily think of it as a full-on lie, but he certainly was placing the "tough guy" front a little bit because, well, that's the Winchester way to hide what he's really feeling inside. Of course with Castiel, there is no hiding what he truly feels because he knows him, inside and out.

While I found Castiel's struggle within the angelic hierarchy intriguing, it was nowhere near as compelling as our freshly-made Castiel.

Definitely. I like that he's taking matters into his own hands this season and really just trying to find the truth about things without being afraid of disobeying or crossing a line, and he's doing it alongside Dean and their mutual trust of one another and, as you said, being placed on equals in their roles; which is what I loved most about this particular episode, that they're enjoying each other's company and it's not simply the typical angel-hunter business stuff that usually occurred from before. I'm really loving how they're handling his character development over the course from last season to now. Very compelling, indeed.

I just interpret Castiel's discomfort as just wariness of how to approach the matter because he's never had to deal with it before and, knowing Dean, it could have been for his amusement to see how the angel would have taken the whole virginity thing, lol.

Hehe. There's plenty of fic out there regarding those things after the episode aired, totally. All of which have it ending up with Dean/Castiel because, come on. It's so obvious they love each other like whoa. ;D
pretty much the nostalgia chick: yes yes i totally agreevikki on November 8th, 2009 02:43 am (UTC)
I really can't think of anything to add to this. =D

I adore Dean and Castiel running around with each other. (Also adore Castiel worrying about where Sam is! OH CASTIEL WE KNEW YOU CARED)
Renée: Six. Satisfied.rogueslayer452 on November 8th, 2009 02:46 am (UTC)
:D

There should be loads more of Dean and Castiel going on hunts and cases together, because the whole FBI thing was HILARIOUS LIKE FOR REALS! XD