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22 December 2009 @ 09:52 am
"Darth Vader kills lieutenants, not Storm Troopers."  
This is what happens when I wake up way earlier than anticipated, for reals. Okay, so I'm rewatching the latest episodes of Dollhouse, because they were made of epic awesome and I needed to see that awesome once again. There were some things I took notice to that I didn't before. Some are just minor things, like the kinds of things that only a fan would look out for or something, but it doesn't make it any less awesome. Plus, some theories I've been thinking about since the episodes aired.


++ When Echo tells Victor to say his final goodbyes to Sierra, and he just waves with a cheerful "goodbye". I just found that incredibly cute because it's just that innocent reaction and his total obliviousness of what is about to occur.

++ The Hyperion Hotel. I C WHUT U DID THAR JOSS.

++ When Victor Tony cannot sleep in a normal bed, he goes off to sleep within the shower/bath. Because it's an enclosed, pod-like shape. I thought that, too, as kinda adorable. Some implications can lead to his body reacting and remembering to sleeping in the pods, and also the sense that he feels more closer to "home" by doing so, and by closer to home I also mean that connection to Sierra.

++ Joss Whedon must be a fan of Lady Gaga. In fact, I'm sure he is. ;)))

++ Echo's little smile when she sees Tony/Priya kissing, loved seeing that. Also Priya and Tony sharing their little likes, such as small remembrances of having breakfast together, of liking pancakes and strawberries. And then Tony saying that he wouldn't mind learning all about this all over again. Aww, my shipper heart goes squee. ♥

++ At first I had thought the card Boyd gave Echo was actually a library card, preferably because of the symbols on it (resembling my own library card) and when he gave it to her it was after their discussion about Echo reading books, so it seemed plausible at the time given those connections. Of course the card does say "All Access" which meant all access to secured areas of the Dollhouse and, given the context of everything now, it makes sense that Boyd would give her something in case the storm hit and she would need to do something. So that confirms that.

++ Echo confronting Adelle was awesome, also interesting because when they're standing in front of one another Eliza is quite tiny compared to Olivia. A nice contrast between them, also seeing that Echo really truly wasn't afraid of Adelle was great to see. That whole scene really was fantastic, since it was showing that Echo was more in control than Adelle was at this point. More on her own two feet and not to be meddled with, and I like that.

++ Despite the lower budget this season, they have done remarkably well in keeping things minimal yet manageable with their effects. The dream sequences in "The Attic" were cleverly put together through imagination and little tricks. Honestly, I couldn't even tell they had a smaller budget based on the quality of that particular episode alone. It was just phenomenal in and of itself the way it was, seriously.

++ Going back and watching both episodes, I have made my conclusion that Adelle was starting to plan and map out everything once she had gotten the reality check from Echo and Boyd, and her resolve face when she was taking the shower to sober up, shall we say, was probably where she was devising such plans of action. The question remains though: when she was pulling everyone aside, other than what we saw how exactly did Adelle tell each of them the plan of action? It seemed everyone was in the know of what was going to go down after Echo and the rest came back, and judging from Adelle's way of talking to them it seemed like their were either in the dark before and were informed when we cut away, or elsewhere.

++ I found it interesting that Dominic didn't comment on Echo being more self-aware than he remembered her. You'd think he would at least saying something about that especially since he had tried to kill her (still doesn't make the Echo/Dominic team any less awesome, though).

++ Tony giving his army jacket to Priya = adorableness to the max. It's in the background when Echo is talking with Clyde, but I still think that's so sweet. ♥

++ Echo tells Clyde that the year is "2010, I think, we don't know how long we've been off the air" I find this interesting because this implies not only the sped-up time frame from the three months that passed when Echo was out in the real world, but it also implies that this episode would have aired next year had FOX not gone the route of airing two new episodes each week.

++ I love the repeating patterns in Whedon's work, the things that he constantly recycles throughout his projects. Which is something all creators do in some form or another, but being a fan it's always fun looking at things like that and understand that this is Joss's signature, in a sense.

++ I had realized this before, but the flamingo pin that Ivy wears on her white lab coat is the same flamingo pin Badger wore in Firefly. It's a signature from Shawna Trpcic, the costume designer.



I've been entertaining the idea that the future that we saw in "Epitaph One" could actually be set within the Attic universe.

I mean, thinking about it, it actually would make some sense considering that Clyde has this particular future already existing in his little nightmare and, assuming he doesn't die because if you die while trapped within the Attic as these worst nightmares are looping in your head, these worlds disappear. But this is also a universal kinda thing, the worst nightmare of the human civilization ending via the abuse of technology. But wouldn't it be something of a twisted notion that, say, somehow everyone gets caught by Rossum or such technology is created that they can put anyone in the Attic at any given time, like with the remote wipe/imprint tech, and they're all placed in the Attic to continue to feed Rossum; that continuing cycle and nobody can truly ever leave, everyone is stuck in this nightmarish hell forever.

Yes? No? Highly implausible? What have I been smoking?

I just know that now that the gang have become aware of such a future being foretold, they'll do whatever it takes to prevent it as Clyde told them, which definitely changes the timeline in what we saw in the flashbacks during "Epitaph One", and I'm sure things have already changed now, so maybe it does happen, or maybe it's all in their minds towards the end. I don't know. It's just a thought to ponder on.


Because of this, though not directly in connection to said theory, I've gotten into thinking about an "Epitaph One"/Croatoan-verse crossover, since it's not beyond all possibilities and I kinda want to see Echo and future!Dean kicking some major ass. I mean, hello, she's a fully self-aware doll who has over forty personalities inside her head. I'd say she and future!Dean could do some pretty awesome damage in creating some hell together, amirite?

OMG CHRISTMAS IS ALMOST HERE YOU GUYS! CAN YOU BELIEVE IT? YAY! \O/
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noybusiness on December 22nd, 2009 08:15 pm (UTC)
This has nothing to do with the above, but someone on io9 just said the funniest thing: "Death keeps having near Dean experiences."
Renée: SPN. Quote. Angels are here.rogueslayer452 on December 22nd, 2009 08:28 pm (UTC)
LOLING FOREVER! Which is, of course, very true. ;D
Reckless Endangerment to Youth: Colonello Lambo Timelotuseyes on December 22nd, 2009 08:30 pm (UTC)
What are you smoking? XD

Good spot on the line from Echo about being off-air. That is such a Whedon thing to do.

Though it sounds like something Joss would pull. Ahh kind of like the season 6 episode with Buffy in the mental hospital--the end of the episode we're not quite reassured that we're not watching a crazy whacked out looney Buffy-brain sequence are we? I can see Rossum pulling that--let's face it the world has a LOT of people in it and if Rossum makes a few hundred disappear, and have the political chops to cover it up, would anyone know? And even if they did--would they want to do something knowing they could end up like that? At most we saw what--several dozen people in Epitaph One and we only have the group's word that there is more out there. It could be plausible.

I don't know if them learning what Clyde tells them changes the timeline. We're not dealing with 'time travel' here, but knowing a future event, almost like a spoiler really. If instead of the episode the spoiler leaked 'Humanity is destroyed! The future is bleak wasteland!' we'd just assume all episodes leading up to that future episode were part of that episode's backstory.

Some of it is different however, and makes me wonder. Dominic also, reacted differently from what I would expect since he knows what is going down. Adelle has long hair throughout the course of Epitaph One's memories. When the show time jumps for Epitaph Two, does this mean that Adelle will have long hair? But judging from the preview of the next episode, when Boyd (I think its Boyd) shoots the guy from DC (it was him right? I know it wasn't Keith Carradine--how much would that suck? being shot on both shows he was on this season!--and it looked like the guy from DC. Is Summer Glau coming back? I'd like to see more of Bennett) I can't help but think Rossum will do something about that.

Also I was rewatching Epitaph One--the scene when Priya and Tony are discussing things, Tony says 'You wouldn't want to end up like November' and Priya responds 'Which one?' we haven't met a new 'November' yet right? I know we saw when Priya became the new 'Sierra' in her backstory episode and Adelle made mention of using Ballard as the new 'Victor', so obviously they recycle the names. Somehow I doubt they'd ever use 'Echo' again and Alpha and Whiskey have both been retired I'm betting.

I wonder why the LA Branch doesn't use codenames that correspond to one and other like the DC branch did (with the Greek Gods theme). The LA branch seems to have names all over the place. Though obviously Alpha makes sense--but was he the first one overall, or just the first LA branch doll?

As far as the Paul/Echo being together thing--Saunders was talking to Caroline at that moment right? Eliza responded to Caroline and it had been assumed, by me at least, that at some point Echo regains Caroline as her primary persona. Now that we see Echo as a person, maybe once Caroline is back in control (and there's no guarantee that she won't replace Echo as the dominant personality) Paul no longer wants to be with her because he fell for Echo as a person not Echo as a Caroline substitute and that's why Caroline is bitter?

noybusiness on December 22nd, 2009 09:30 pm (UTC)
The LA names are all letters of the NATO alphabet.
Reckless Endangerment to Youthlotuseyes on December 22nd, 2009 09:41 pm (UTC)
ah hm (I had to go look that up had no idea what that was), now it raises the question of what other Branches use for their theme...

I want the British one to be after Tea or something. 'I think I'll order Earl Grey today' ::is so amused by this::
noybusiness: lolcatbsgnoybusiness on December 22nd, 2009 10:36 pm (UTC)
Yeah, that would be funny. I'm reminded of an Earl Grey and Oolong joke in Return to Labyrinth (the manga sequel to the film Labyrinth).
Renée: Echo. Save Dollhouse.rogueslayer452 on December 22nd, 2009 11:37 pm (UTC)
I IS SMOKING THE GOOD CRACK, YES I IS! ;D

Given the fact that we're seeing just how powerful Rossum is and the lengths they'll go to achieving their goals, I wouldn't be surprised if this is what they would resort to. Especially if there is to be a rebellion against them, they would indeed try to find ways of silencing these people and using such a tactic as a threat to anyone else. It's really pretty frightening.

I don't know if them learning what Clyde tells them changes the timeline. We're not dealing with 'time travel' here, but knowing a future event, almost like a spoiler really.

Of course, but certainly like you said things have changed from what we saw from "Epitaph One", like with what you said with Adelle and then with Dominic. We were shown the same little clippet of Echo and Paul in the elevator, but when exactly had that occurred? Echo seemed to have been well aware like she is now, with the headaches and whatnot, but that couldn't have happened with the time frame between her being lost in the world and upon returning to the Dollhouse, right? So yeah, there are certain tiny aspects that have changed, but it wasn't clear from "Epitaph One" if they knew this would happen or if they just learned as it was happening.

I'm actually very curious as to what Adelle has planned. A full out rebellion against Rossum, or what? It sounds like her rallying everyone up means something, they are certainly going to be fighting back somehow.

Also I was rewatching Epitaph One--the scene when Priya and Tony are discussing things, Tony says 'You wouldn't want to end up like November' and Priya responds 'Which one?' we haven't met a new 'November' yet right?

Dominic also says something along the lines of "which one's Caroline?" during that episode, as well. This is interesting and it has me question what they are talking about.

And yeah, like noybusiness said, they use codes from the NATO alphabet, while the DC Dollhouse uses codes from Greek gods (a nod to BSG from Joss, obviously). They mentioned this from S1 (Victor telling Echo that these were military code names). From this we also see that not all Dollhouse are operated the same way, they have different formatting and different ways of using their Actives. So apparently they wouldn't have another Echo or November elsewhere because that's already been used.

Now that we see Echo as a person, maybe once Caroline is back in control (and there's no guarantee that she won't replace Echo as the dominant personality) Paul no longer wants to be with her because he fell for Echo as a person not Echo as a Caroline substitute and that's why Caroline is bitter?

Could be possible, although it's hard to tell. I don't want Caroline to take control because Echo has finally become her own as an individual person. Since I'm definitely more for Echo than Caroline at this point, but it's hard to say whether this comes true or not. I would think if Echo imprints Caroline back that, because Echo is much stronger, Caroline might not become the dominant personality since Echo has learned to take control of the countless others in her head. But even with that, Caroline is part of Echo as Echo is to her, so maybe they could end up being both dominant? And perhaps that is why Paul cannot do anything and Echo/Caroline is bitter.

It's a mindwarp of a thing to contemplate, that's for sure. I just want to see how all this plays out.
Mary: dean is batman for srsfresleyforever on December 23rd, 2009 12:32 am (UTC)
I love your thinky thoughts on Dollhouse because my brain mostly goes *boom..fizzle* when I watch this show.

The Attic was seriously creepy and as you said even with the smaller budget, the show hasn't gone down on quality visually or otherwise.

TONY/PRIYA 4EVA!!!!
Renée: Victor/Sierra. Sleeping.rogueslayer452 on December 23rd, 2009 02:46 am (UTC)
Oh believe me, my mind went OMGWHUT S'PLODY through most of what was happening. I don't know how I manage to even be coherent, let alone write meta stuff (this goes for any of my fandoms, really).

The Attic was just so disturbing and just perfectly creepy and fantastically done, from the facility itself to going into the character's minds. I had always wondered what the mystery of "the attic" was all about, and now I see why it's a threat to anyone because I would totally not want to be brought there. No way. And yeah, low budgets can't bring down the epic that Whedon has brought with this.

TONY/PRIYA! It's so weird because I still call them Victor/Sierra in my mind, lol. But they are just so adorable and eeeee! ♥