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21 April 2010 @ 09:36 pm
Don't piss off the nerd angels.  
I love this icon so much. ♥ BAMF!CASTIEL DEMANDS YOUR RESPECT, BITCHES.

Rewatched "Point of No Return" for like the umpteenth, because how can I not? Seriously, that episode made me shit and puke sparkles and rainbows and the more I watch it the more I love it. Anyway, going through the episode again I noticed a few things, whether they are of importance or not doesn't really matter, I feel like talking about them. Because I still need to express my love (and there's gushing over Misha/Castiel, obviously).


01. Bitchy!Castiel is my favorite. I love him just being so bitchy and kind of throwing little passive-aggressive tantrums in the beginning until he full-on unleashed all his emotions out onto Dean in the alleyway. Like, in the beginning he's all leaning against the wall, arms folded glaring at Dean (always making with the eyesexing even by glaring, I love that), he just pulled Adam from his grave like, what tracy hilariously said in her picspam review, "pulling out a carrot" which is precisely who I view the scene now every single time and I CRACK UP I AM NOT KIDDING. I CANNOT GET THAT IMAGE OUT OF MY HEAD OF CASTIEL CASUALLY PULLING BODIES FROM THEIR GRAVES LIKE HARVESTING CARROTS OR SOMETHING. XD Which he then just tosses Adam like a ragdoll onto the bed in Bobby's house, lol. And then when they're talking to Adam about what the angels have planned, Castiel goes all bitchy to Dean when he says, "maybe they wrongly assumed Dean would be brave enough to withstand them". Emphasis on the word "wrongly" there. His sarcasm drips with bitchiness, and I like it. Then there's, of course, the bitchy telekinetic panic room door slam, which I personally love.

I just, I love bitchy!Castiel. We're not used to seeing this side of him frequently, but they've been fleshing out this bitchy and sarcastic side of him bit by bit, and it's also the subtly of how Misha's performance showing how Castiel is further becoming familiarized with human mannerisms, whether it's a change in posture or emphasizing something in a sentence. Because when you think back to S4 that's just something Castiel wouldn't have done, or if he was bitchy it was only for a moment before he pulled himself back into being the obedient soldier. So I really love how they've conducted it, and mostly none of it would have been possible without Misha, really. Writing can only get you so far, it's the actor that has to provide the performance to make the written words come to life on the screen.

02. Castiel presented and used more of his powers in this episode than what we've seen of him previously (or perhaps ever?), which I found very interesting. One point of this in particular is when he's transporting himself from one place to another, whether appearing or disappearing he makes his presence known with an audible whoooosh and you visibly see papers flying about. This isn't something that has happened on a regular basis. He's just suddenly there or just goes without much warning, most times with a soft flapping of wings to really announce his coming or going. Which is why I suspect the main reason for the ~dramatic wind~ was part of Castiel's bitchiness. Kinda like the panic room door slam, this was his way of being kind of tantruming about. HIS BITCHINESS AND RAGE TRANSCENDED THROUGH HIS TRAVELING MECHANISM AND I KINDA LOVE THAT. IT TICKLES ME FOR SOME REASON. ;D

03. I'm finding there's been some debate on whether Zachariah mentioned "erotically" or "neurotically" when describing the brothers being codependent on each other. I've rewatched the scene, trying to decipher what he really said, and honestly I can't tell. I think either works though, depending on your fannish stance on being a Wincester or just a casual fan. For me? I don't necessarily care. The show likes adding little slash-filled lines for shits and giggles and the fanservice. It's however you interpret the context of the scene, really.

04. I love how despite his tantrums and bitching around that when Sam returns from his talk with Dean, Castiel has a soft expression on his face. I kind of love that little moment because it's like he's both irritated that Dean would ever consider surrendering to the angels, and yet so very concerned for him at the same time. Even in the alleyway it was the same thing, after beating him up and letting go of his pent up emotions and frustrations upon Dean he just couldn't do any more because he truly does care about Dean. Love hurts people, it was totally the "this hurts me more than it hurts you" thing that was happening between them. I just cannot stop watching the alleyway scene because of that. Castiel doesn't want to hurt Dean but dammit, if Dean is just this stubborn and push him Castiel is gonna push right back, just harder. And more demanding. Because he's still a BAMF, after all.

05. Oh, another thing about the alleyway scene. It's that moment when you realize just how many people were wandering on the sidewalk just a few feet away while all of that was going on that you're kinda like, ummmm, why aren't people noticing this?? If this was real life and there was a huge brawl happening, esp in an alleyway like that, people would be gathering around or at least stopping to watch it happen, or the police would arrive or something. I know, I know, this is fictional and it was all for the storytelling and it's the filming angles and all of that, but sometimes I just have to pause and wonder about those kinds of things, esp after multiple viewings of said scene. It's like UM PPL, SOME GUY IS GETTING HIS ASS WHOOPED BY A VERY PISSED OFF NERD ANGEL AND Y'ALL AREN'T USING YOUR CAMERA PHONES?! lol can you imagine if that actually happened? And Sam would find it the next day and be all, "um Dean, how come there's video of you and Castiel on YouTube?" And Dean would be all "O_o....doing what?" all embarrassed and shit. LOL!

06. I still kind of laugh at the random palm trees in the background towards the end. Like the show is saying, "in case you didn't believe Castiel when he said they're in California, LOOK! SOME PALM TREES!" lol


As a random observation, the more I watch this show, particularly episodes from S4 and S5, the more I realize it probably wouldn't be the same without Castiel being involved somehow. Which is why I hope and PRAY TO GOD AND ALL THE LORDS OF KOBOL that they make Misha Collins a regular for next season as well, despite my still skeptical feelings about it. He's become such an essential part of the show and the emotional attachment I have for the character has reached to a point where it is just absolutely ridculous. I don't think I would stop watching Supernatural as a whole because I do want to see how the Winchester saga ends, but my level of fannishness wouldn't be the same. It's so strange that I've becoming so emotionally attached to such a character like that in such a short period of time and that he would be a determination of how I feel about the show in general, but I don't think I'm not alone in thinking this, right?

To end this post, I think I'll leave you guys this: Misha Collins singing in Russian!!!! During I think the meet & greet tables thing during the JIB convention where the girls were singing a Russian song Misha remembered during childhood (1:20m) and he started singing and kind of dancing along to (1:50m).

YOU GUYS THIS MAN IS SUPER ADORABLE I CAN'T EVEN. <3333
 
 
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Current Music: Bear McCreary - All Along The Watchtower
 
 
 
Kevin Jonesmulder200 on April 22nd, 2010 05:00 am (UTC)
3. That is very good point. I like the fact that his mood was reflected in his flying away.

4. Very much so yes. When Cas first walked in, he was all concerned and worried about Dean and then BAM! Dean blows him away. That is why I think he lost his shit in the alleyway. It was just the last straw to an already shitty situation.

And I totally feel you about Castiel. Honestly, the only reason I am watching is because I like his character and I am curious about his journey. If he leaves, I won't be watching.

LOL! Misha is such a ham!
Kevin Jonesmulder200 on April 22nd, 2010 05:44 am (UTC)
5. OMG! That would be such an awesome fic idea. LOL!
Renée: Castiel. I'm almost out of minutes!rogueslayer452 on April 22nd, 2010 05:58 am (UTC)
I WAS THINKING THAT TOO! XD SOMEONE SHOULD WRITE THAT. IT WOULD BE HILARIOUS, LOL!
Renée: Castiel. Guardian angel.rogueslayer452 on April 22nd, 2010 05:57 am (UTC)
I like the fact that his mood was reflected in his flying away.

It's just those little details of how they dealt with what Castiel was feeling throughout most of the episode, either with pointed looks to the way sarcasm dripped in his voice to just the way he appeared and disappeared, all of it a reflection of his mood. I found that very effective in telling exactly how he was feeling.

Very much so yes. When Cas first walked in, he was all concerned and worried about Dean and then BAM! Dean blows him away. That is why I think he lost his shit in the alleyway. It was just the last straw to an already shitty situation.

Exactly. You could tell he just wanted to talk with Dean, either to understand him or scold him or whatever, but then that happened and it really was the final straw that just made Castiel snap. He didn't want to, but God forbid he just wanted to know why Dean would be giving up everything for what they've been fighting for, everything that Castiel had given up to fight for right beside them. That high emotional point especially for Castiel, and that's what really what gets to me, every single time. It makes me really hope there's a continuation from what happened between them because this was just so huge to not be brought up again.

And I totally feel you about Castiel. Honestly, the only reason I am watching is because I like his character and I am curious about his journey. If he leaves, I won't be watching.

Yeah, my thoughts exactly, but I'm also worried too. I wonder if he does become a regular how much of relevance will his character provide to the storyline, if the Apocalypse is going to be wrapped up this season? I don't want Castiel to return if he's only going to be there for comedic purposes. I want to see his character story develop. I'm also worried because they said they're returning to the S1 format, and since Kripke is kind of stepping down and allowing Sera Gamble take the forefront, who doesn't like the angel stuff apparently, I'm worried of how she'll be handling things since I don't trust her sense of direction. It's like I'm torn. I want Misha to return but I don't want them fucking up his character (which if Gamble gets hold on it, I know she definitely will) because I've seen that happen FAR too many times in the past with my other fandoms with characters I adored. So honestly I don't know. I still think they should have ended the series with the apocalypse. :/ :/ :/

MISHA IS JUST A RIOT. I LOVE HIM. <3 <3 <3

Edited at 2010-04-22 05:59 am (UTC)
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Renée: MISHA COLLINS BITCHES!rogueslayer452 on April 22nd, 2010 06:03 am (UTC)
He's completely amazing. I love and adore this man entirely. ♥ ♥ ♥

It's not just you, he probably is a bit drunk. There is drinking at these conventions and he does have a bottle in his hands so, yeah. I wouldn't doubt that he's a bit tipsy there. ;)
Tracy: Dean/Cas And Foreveralexwhitman25 on April 22nd, 2010 05:26 am (UTC)
If there is no Misha next season, this show will be a DVR show that I catch up with on slow weekends. I mean I barely survived S3. If they hadn't added Cas and the angels in S4, I would have been outta there. I need some freshness and other dynamics than Dean and Sam.

Also, I've been thinking about the end of S5 and leading into S6. Now very little is known about S6 except that the code word seems to be RESET, it's supposed to be more focused on the brotherly stuff, it's supposed to be more S1 tonewise, and that the new showrunner isn't too crazy about the angel storyline. Oh and the apocalypse is over. This has me thinking about what S6 means for Cas. To keep him around, I would think he would have to be semi-fallen at the least. Having an amped up angel around for case of the weeks and menial demons doesn't quite work. He could too easily dispatch them. I would be down with semi-fallen, fallen, or human Cas. I could see S5 ending with Cas going out in a blaze of glory, sacrificing himself yet again. I could handle that as his ending, I'd flail and cry but I could swallow it down. I could see it ending with God recalling him back to the heavenly fold (although I like that less since I think Cas has truly embraced free will and outgrown heaven in a lot of ways). Or I could see my nightmare ending - apocalypse averted, the angels erase Cas and all angel related things from Dean's mind and BOOM S6 reset. It's been mentioned enough times that angels have messed with people's memories. It would kill me if they went that route.
Renée: Dean/Castiel. Between us.rogueslayer452 on April 22nd, 2010 06:41 am (UTC)
If they hadn't added Cas and the angels in S4, I would have been outta there. I need some freshness and other dynamics than Dean and Sam.

My thoughts exactly. You and I both share the same thoughts about S6 so I won't revisit that, knowing we can go on and on paragraphs-length about how we feel about it, but I completely agree. If they had continued the way they did in S3 I would have just stopped watching completely. It got too repetitive with their issues being repeated over and over again. Adding Castiel, the angels and the apocalypse storyline into the show's mythology was not only refreshing but it completely boosted the show back up again from such lackluster ratings, and losing that aspect just to push that reset button would be kind of ridiculous and kinda stupid, honestly.

In my mind I have certain theories on how Castiel's journey could go at the end of this season: his faith is restored and he becomes promoted in Heaven and is in charge of reinstating order there from all that was corrupted, and returns next season as the Winchester's guardian for whatever big bad they're dealing with (because having an entire season with just them hunting? Borrinnngg!) or, he stays on Earth with them but still remains an angel. Because while I like the possibility of him becoming fallen, especially for Dean (always for Dean) to explore his development more, I don't trust the show of handling that aspect well. I like the idea of him experiencing and understanding humanity while remaining an angel because, in my view, it can be very interesting because I don't think many angels have done that at least in the way Castiel has been doing. Otherwise, him falling and becoming human would kind of be kinda cliche, imo. I want something different, something of a reward for his faith in fighting the good fight, because after everything he deserves it. I just hope whatever happens they should treat his character journey with respect, because my biggest fear is that next season, if he returns, they'll fuck it up. I don't want that to happen to my favorite beloved character.
Tracy: Cas Nerdy Angelalexwhitman25 on April 22nd, 2010 06:34 pm (UTC)
I really don't think they are going with a Big Bad mytharc next season though. And I get the feeling they plan on moving away from the angel mythology. So not sure how amped angel sidekick would work. I love angel Cas, but I can't see him having a place fighting monsters of the week without it coming across as silly. He's too powerful for them to give him much trouble. Maybe if his powers were still diminished like they currently are? I mean I would swallow a powerful angel going on these hunts (cause I'm pathetic and want to keep Cas, kay?), but I know parts of fandom would have some things to say about it. I don't know. The biggest element that will play into whether he stays is probably the popularity of the character. I know a lot of fans would be very upset if he wasn't around next season. And I think them writing in the Sam friendship the way they did is a leadup for him staying. Did you hear the rumblings about Jensen mentioning the crew preparing for a S7 and S8? Oh boy...
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Renée: Castiel + Cell phone = OTP.rogueslayer452 on April 22nd, 2010 06:42 am (UTC)
I WANT HIM TO BE! I CAN'T SURVIVE WITHOUT HIM! But I'm also worried with how his character be dealt with next season if they do announce him returning. It's complicated. BUT EITHER WAY I JUST WANT MISHA TO BE IN MY LIFEEEEE. <3

Edited at 2010-04-22 06:42 am (UTC)
cheerful_earl: Ginger Catcheerful_earl on April 22nd, 2010 08:00 am (UTC)
I love Bitchy!Castiel also. I *love* the Angry Cas Papers (tm Tracy)! Misha can bring the anger- Cas radiates it even when he's not speaking. But I also love the softness. As angry as Cas was, he still cares about Dean. He's just fed up.

OMG, I think it's SO hilarious that people keep walking by the alley and no one peeks in! It was one of the first things I noticed about that scene when I watched it as a preview clip, and it made me laaaaaugh.

I'm really torn about Cas next season. On one hand, I cannot survive without my weekly dose of Misha. And Castiel... I love him so much. I've never become so attached to a character in so short a time. He's so fascinating for so many reasons and I don't want his story to end. But on the other hand... I don't see how he'd fit into the storyline, whatever it may be. And these writers are really not very good at balancing out having three main characters (Sera Gamble, actually, is one of the worst at it, I think- Carver and Edlund seem to do okay, as does Siege). Some episodes it works, others it does not, and I can't see them continuing to try if they've moved back to a highly episodic story structure- Cas fits best in the mytharc episodes.

And the thing is, it never once occurred to me that Castiel would live until I entered SPN fandom. I was absolutely 100% sure he would die at the end of S5. But I don't *want* him to. I want him there. Make it work, people!

You know what I want? A Cas spin-off. I love Cas and the Winchesters together (and hey, Dean/Cas OTP), but I would so watch the Castiel, semi-fallen angel traveling around to discover humanity and fight whatever show.

Okay, seriously. HOW IS MISHA REAL!? Every single time I think I cannot love him more than I do, something comes up and makes me love him a little bit more. He's so hilarious. And I love tipsy!Misha. His little dance! LOLOL. <333333333
Renée: Castiel. Wings.rogueslayer452 on April 22nd, 2010 07:58 pm (UTC)
I love Bitchy!Castiel also. I *love* the Angry Cas Papers (tm Tracy)! Misha can bring the anger- Cas radiates it even when he's not speaking.

It's the angry!eye!sex. ;D But yes, I really love how they don't really need to have Castiel say anything to understand what he's feeling in a particular scene or moment. It's all in his body language the reflects his mood. Like in the alleyway, he looks so pissed off, but then he uncurls his hand and his expression softens just so slightly. It's amazing. MISHA is amazing with his performances, period.

OMG, I think it's SO hilarious that people keep walking by the alley and no one peeks in!

It's just such a random observation but the more you view it, the more hilarious it seems that NOBODY PAYS ATTENTION. XD

Some episodes it works, others it does not, and I can't see them continuing to try if they've moved back to a highly episodic story structure- Cas fits best in the mytharc episodes.

I think that's the main issue I have, because back when the show first premiered we weren't really exposed to the bigger arcs, that was half the mystery alongside the regular hunting gigs they did. But the further and further we got into the heavier arcs the more we drifted from that and started becoming engaged in those instead of the episodic ones. Which is why now almost all the episodes that have nothing to do with the mytharcs tend to be the weakest and least favorite episodes for most people. Because the show has progressed to something other than random MOTW episodes, and when you have that going for you that's a sign that says you need to progress further into that mythology rather than set everything back. Which is why I agree, as much as I would love Castiel to return because I love my little nerdy angel like whoa, I don't think he would fit well in that kind of format and I wouldn't like it if they just kept him around just for popularity sake or as a comedic stand-in (and I certainly don't want them fucking up his character storyline, like the fail that Sera Gamble often does with her writing....) I want them to really think about his role, if he returns either still an angel or whatever to help them with something. But at least pay some respect to his character journey.

I AM SO CONFLICTED! I WANT MY CASTIEL AND MISHA ON MY SCREEN BUT I DON'T WANT THEM FUCKING SHIT UP! AND THIS SHOW IS AWESOME BUT IT HAS ITS FLAWS AND I DON'T WANT A REPEAT OF THE FAIL THAT WAS S3! D:

You know what I want? A Cas spin-off. I love Cas and the Winchesters together (and hey, Dean/Cas OTP), but I would so watch the Castiel, semi-fallen angel traveling around to discover humanity and fight whatever show.

YES. THIS. Or just Castiel dealing with his angel family and understanding more about the dysfunctional side of Heaven, because I find that more fascinating than the Winchester brothers and their issues. As much as I love Sam and Dean, their story is almost pretty much done with. I want more about the angels, the rankings, the changes in Heaven and I want there to be a spin-off with Castiel just trying to understand where he belongs, his fight alongside the Winchesters and just trying to make things right, etc. Just something to do with Castiel and his family and his journey. Or, better yet, fill in those blanks during his mission to find God that was sourly taken out between 5.02 and 5.16.

Also, I'm biased. I find the angel mythology far more compelling than anything else in the show at the moment. ;)

Okay, seriously. HOW IS MISHA REAL!? Every single time I think I cannot love him more than I do, something comes up and makes me love him a little bit more.

IKR???? I am constantly amazed with everything this man does. It's like, there's nothing I don't love about him. He's just amazingly awesomely so ridiculously perfect. ♥ ♥ ♥ MY HEART, IT BEATS FOR MISHA AND HIS DORKINESS. ;DDDD
cheerful_earl: Team Free Willcheerful_earl on April 23rd, 2010 06:54 am (UTC)
I want there to be a spin-off with Castiel just trying to understand where he belongs, his fight alongside the Winchesters and just trying to make things right, etc. Just something to do with Castiel and his family and his journey.

That would be amazing. I mean, he's had such a journey already and I feel like the end of this season can't wrap it up. With only three episodes left, unless they're bringing him back for next season, the end of Cas' arc has to be abrupt. Where's the time for rebuilding faith in his father? Where's the time to reconcile his love of his brothers, of heaven, with his fight at the side of the Winchesters? I would love to see a show that deals with the dysfunctional side of Heaven, with the screwed up family dynamics and such. Sadly, I don't think we're going to get anything like it. Maybe it's just post-Gabriel death woe, but I really think they're just going to obliterate everything having to do with this arc to give them their reset.

Which leads me to...

Because the show has progressed to something other than random MOTW episodes, and when you have that going for you that's a sign that says you need to progress further into that mythology rather than set everything back.

YES. And it drives me crazy that they try to dial this back. I think they've done a GREAT job growing the mythology from something that is so standalone into something with strong arcs. That they want to undo all of that disappoints me, especially since they've funneled everything into the mythology arc. Taking S4 and S5's reveals into account, this show was never about a standalone plot. It's all lead up to this (which of course I know isn't technically true), so a reset will be more than just a reset. It'll be a plotless show. Because the show was always about Sam's weird powers and Dean's family issues and the fight against the things that destroyed their family- and these are things that culminate NOW.

I'm going to watch S6, because I love Sam and Dean, and I love the show. But I just don't understand what they're going to do with it.

I want them to really think about his role, if he returns either still an angel or whatever to help them with something.

Basically, I want this. I don't want comic relief or deus ex machina. I want them to be true to Castiel, and keep him a character, not a plot device. Honestly, if that means fewer episodes, I'm good. I'll take 9 good Cas episodes to 16 hit-and-miss ones.

I am constantly amazed with everything this man does.

I know! And what doesn't he do? Gah. Actor, house builder, overlord, poet... I am so amazed by him. Like you said, he's awesomely amazingly ridiculously perfect. MY HEART BEATS FOR HIM TOO. <3333
Renée: SPN. TEAM FREE WILL FUCK YEAH!rogueslayer452 on April 24th, 2010 12:08 am (UTC)
Where's the time for rebuilding faith in his father? Where's the time to reconcile his love of his brothers, of heaven, with his fight at the side of the Winchesters? I would love to see a show that deals with the dysfunctional side of Heaven, with the screwed up family dynamics and such.

Yes, this completely. I find the angel mythology entirely compelling because there's so much rich material there to explore further and they really had all season to go to certain places. They did with some, but not a whole lot. I mean I know, Supernatural is about the Winchesters and their journey but I love the parallels between their family issues and the issues happening in Heaven, which I find very intriguing. I think that's one of the major disappointments I have about this season. As far as Castiel this season, overall I really like what they've done with his character...but I wish they could have done more, you know? I mean you're right, with three episodes to go that really isn't enough time for that kind of growth from having lost his faith in God to regaining it and all of that. Had they planned it out better, like say showed us his journey of finding God earlier in the season with Dean's amulet and then giving us the bombshell about God to him. I don't know.

I'll be very disappointed if they just wrap everything up too quickly and make it seem like it was lazy writing on their ends just to end the apocalypse. Which I don't want to think about because I was VERY impressed with S4 and how they stepped it up from the lackluster that was S3 and having such a huge mythological arc like that you can't just half-ass it. But that's precisely what it feels like they're doing.

Maybe it's just post-Gabriel death woe, but I really think they're just going to obliterate everything having to do with this arc to give them their reset.

I think that's what's fueling a lot of people's unsettling feelings right now. I have loved where the show has been heading but hearing that there is another season which will be a setback from everything we've progressed towards, with Jeremy Carver supposedly leaving and Sera Gamble taking charge, I am uncomfortable with the notion that this sixth season will just be a joke. I can't help feel that way. I want to be proven wrong, but as much as I do love Supernatural it's not without its flaws.

Taking S4 and S5's reveals into account, this show was never about a standalone plot. It's all lead up to this (which of course I know isn't technically true), so a reset will be more than just a reset. It'll be a plotless show.

I know I already said this but, yes, my thoughts precisely. I know some fans will be all FUCK YOU THIS SHOW IS AWESOME AND I LIKED IT BETTER BACK WHEN IT WAS ABOUT THE BROTHERS AND THE HUNTING AND BLAH BLAH BLAH or whatever, which I have seen around fandom because some people just don't like the deeper and more complex mytharcs they've been having for whatever reason idek, but that is not what the show was built upon. Yes it's about the brothers, but it's more to it than that. There was a gradual build up through a mystery, and overtime we've come to understand what this mystery is and how the Winchester legacy is tied into this bigger and grander plan and I felt, and still feel, ending the show on a high note such as the freaking Apocalypse is definitely the best way to go out on top. I feel like there's a lot of people that feel the same way we do, and I'm hoping that Kripke and Co. are acknowledging our words (as they often do when they stalk fandom, lol) because they need to know how we feel. Kripke wanted the show to go out with a big finish, and I want that to happen. I don't want another lackluster comedy-filler season. This show has progressed beyond that into something much better, I think

(this could also be because the majority of my fandoms have a lot of complex story arcs and mythology attached to them; procedural aren't really my kind of thing except for a few, otherwise with such shows like Supernatural where mythology is the backbone alongside the Winchester drama I can't see anything lesser than having that mythology grow)
cheerful_earl: Team Free Willcheerful_earl on April 25th, 2010 05:54 am (UTC)
Had they planned it out better, like say showed us his journey of finding God earlier in the season with Dean's amulet and then giving us the bombshell about God to him.

I mainly come from the Smallville fandom, and we have this saying: It happened in "Offscreenville", meaning that place where cool stuff happens that we never see. It's a sad thing when Supernatural does things like that. But yeah, I feel like there's a long way to go, without a long time to do it in. I too really like the parallels between the brothers and the heavenly family dynamics, only I wish we'd *seen* more of it. They did a lot of telling, and I only wish they'd gotten into Cas' search for his dad (like Dean's search for his in S1, a parallel Dean himself draws, so it would have been nice to *see* something of it) and have gotten more with Cas and his brothers, instead of Gabriel and Lucifer just sort of speechifying about how "So it is in Heaven, so must it be here!"

I'll be very disappointed if they just wrap everything up too quickly and make it seem like it was lazy writing on their ends just to end the apocalypse.

As will I. I can see the set-up for how they're going to end it (well, how it seems like they're going to end it from Gabriel's deus ex Casa Erotica from beyond the grave), but I wish they would have started the build up for it earlier instead of having so much freaking filler mid-season. I mean, the rings thing they clearly had in mind from the beginning (IMO), but why just drop the bomb all of a sudden? They did the same thing with Crowley and the Colt though.

There was a gradual build up through a mystery, and overtime we've come to understand what this mystery is and how the Winchester legacy is tied into this bigger and grander plan and I felt, and still feel, ending the show on a high note such as the freaking Apocalypse is definitely the best way to go out on top.

Yes, exactly! I agree completely (a running theme in this comment thread, hehe). The show can be about the brothers and still have this deeper mythology; it can be more than just two brothers on a lonely highway and still be all about "saving people, hunting things". I loved the way they unraveled this huge plan, and I don't want to regress into something that is, essentially, post-apocalyptic filler.

I think they could do cool things with it. I just don't necessarily trust that they will. I like shows with deep mythology too (though I do like to watch procedurals, mainly for the "popcorn for the brain" quality); those are the things that stick in my mind, that make me really invested in the plot. I just don't understand the idea of going backward in terms of plot sophistication.
Renée: Castiel. I'm almost out of minutes!rogueslayer452 on April 25th, 2010 07:59 am (UTC)
Yeah, a lot of the potentially awesome stuff does happen offscreen and that's unfortunate. I mean sure, that's why there's fanfiction but at the same time, it's disappointing that they would make a huge deal about Castiel's search for God when we didn't really see that journey, at least snippets of it. Like him using the amulet someplace before getting a call from Dean needing his help or whatever.

They did a lot of telling, and I only wish they'd gotten into Cas' search for his dad (like Dean's search for his in S1, a parallel Dean himself draws, so it would have been nice to *see* something of it)

I am in love with the parallels between Castiel and Dean with their daddy issues, the fact that Dean encouraged Castiel to still search for God even though Dean himself wasn't all that convinced. But there's obvious connections and parallels between them that I wished we'd gotten more of that, like I said snippets of Castiel's search even just for a moment in an episode or whatever. There's definitely a lot of speechifying and less with the action/showing of those things. Sometimes we need to "show, don't tell" approach of the narrative on this show.

but I wish they would have started the build up for it earlier instead of having so much freaking filler mid-season. I mean, the rings thing they clearly had in mind from the beginning (IMO), but why just drop the bomb all of a sudden? They did the same thing with Crowley and the Colt though.

Exactly, and that's part of the problem. I wouldn't have much issue had they given indication earlier into the season without it being only a few episodes left. They spent too much time on filler episodes and less time dealing with the actual Apocalypse which, in my mind, is what the writing should mainly consist of instead of going "oh it's the end of the world, oh look a hunting gig that has nothing to do with it!" I mean, I understand certain writers have interesting episode ideas but, thinking as a whole for the show? You should focus more on that storytelling rather than episodic ideas. Save that for another time, or balance it out with the rest of the season.

I loved the way they unraveled this huge plan, and I don't want to regress into something that is, essentially, post-apocalyptic filler.

*nods* That's pretty much how I, and most fans, are feeling right now. I want to be proven wrong, I want Kripke to at least have a plan that'll work despite it not being part of his original concept, but I don't know. I love emotional arcs and mythology interconnected with each other, it makes things much more compelling and we all know that Supernatural raised in quality and its audience once they introduced the theological aspect into the grander mythos of the show. But, I don't know. :/
Renée: Castiel. Searching for answers.rogueslayer452 on April 24th, 2010 12:14 am (UTC)
Wow, part 2 because I write looonngg responses lol
I want them to be true to Castiel, and keep him a character, not a plot device. Honestly, if that means fewer episodes, I'm good. I'll take 9 good Cas episodes to 16 hit-and-miss ones.

Definitely. Lesser is sometimes for the better. Not that I haven't loved him this season, though I felt we were cheated from seeing his story progressing. I keep thinking back to S4 when all the episodes Castiel appeared in had something to do with the major plot, sometimes even his own character development ("On The Head Of A Pin" is one of my favorite episodes because it was so Castiel-centric) And if Castiel will be part of S6 but wouldn't necessarily fit into the atmosphere in every single episode, then yes I would prefer fewer episodes with him having to deal with a particular plot point than just there for the sake of being there.

Even though I would LOVEEEEE to see my bb Misha on my screen daily and more crazy antics with him and the Winchesters, I would prefer them respecting his character story than treating him like a background object.

I think as a whole I'm very nervous. I want Supernatural to end on a good, high note and I'm not pleased when they announced a sixth season when Kripke had already stated that he had planned for five seasons. I wished he'd gone the RDM route when he stuck to his guns saying he only wanted four seasons of BSG and that was that. I don't know, mixed feelings are still mixed and confused. I've been loving these last two seasons and the arcs they had that I just don't want to end up disappointed. And as I've said I do love SPN, but sometimes I facepalm at some of their decisions for certain things.
cheerful_earl: dean/cascheerful_earl on April 25th, 2010 06:20 am (UTC)
Long responses = fun! :D
I keep thinking back to S4 when all the episodes Castiel appeared in had something to do with the major plot, sometimes even his own character development ("On The Head Of A Pin" is one of my favorite episodes because it was so Castiel-centric)

Oh, yes. OTHOAP is one of my favorites too; I think it was the episode that really made me love Castiel (I'm a little slow with these things sometimes, heh). But I agree, S4 worked well, because Cas' appearances felt so organic. It didn't feel like they were trying to make him fit into an episode; it just worked. I loved him this season too, but I think they were trying to balance out so many different opinions and walk a really fine line- to me, it seems like they didn't want to put too much Cas because THE SHOW MUST BE ABOUT THE BROTHERS OMG, but they contracted Misha so they had to use him. (Also, I think it was easier for them to deal with the brothers each getting their own "ally" in S4 and dividing the screen time that way than trying to balance out three characters.)

I would love to have Misha on my screen everyday, but quality definitely surpasses quantity when it comes to Castiel.

I think as a whole I'm very nervous. I want Supernatural to end on a good, high note and I'm not pleased when they announced a sixth season when Kripke had already stated that he had planned for five seasons. I wished he'd gone the RDM route when he stuck to his guns saying he only wanted four seasons of BSG and that was that. I don't know, mixed feelings are still mixed and confused.

This is me too. I hold everything up to BSG, because to me, that is one of the greatest shows ever. I respect RDM for setting a time limit, sticking to it, and tying everything up. But SPN... They're going on without Kripke, beyond what they'd ever wanted, and I just don't know. I read somewhere that Sera Gamble said that they'd wanted to do whatever the S6 storyline will be for a while, but I don't understand how that jives with hitting the reset button. I actually like a lot of Gamble's episodes, but I don't know that I'm on the same page with her storywise.
Renée: Dean/Castiel. Between us.rogueslayer452 on April 25th, 2010 08:14 am (UTC)
Re: Long responses = fun! :D
Also, I think it was easier for them to deal with the brothers each getting their own "ally" in S4 and dividing the screen time that way than trying to balance out three characters

Which I find interesting, because it's not like they can't balance out three individual characters on the show. I'm thinking about a lot of ensemble shows like BSG or Buffy or those kinds where they had a huge cast but always managed to balance out all the characters, either together or separately, and while yes Supernatural has always been about the two brothers being the main focus it's not like that can't have another main addition and balance that out. I don't know, perhaps I'm expecting too much for them.

But yeah, I think I loved having the S4 balancing out of the brothers was mainly for focusing on their individual journeys and their own companions (Dean with Castiel, Sam with Ruby). Of course, this led some in fandom being completely batshit and calculating how much screentime one brother had than the other, and yaddy-yadda. *rolls eyes*

I would love to have Misha on my screen everyday, but quality definitely surpasses quantity when it comes to Castiel.

Definitely. I love and respect him too much for the quantity to be too much filler for his character.

I hold everything up to BSG, because to me, that is one of the greatest shows ever.

PREACH IT SISTAH! SO SAY WE ALL! ;)

BSG certainly had a lot going for it, because you could tell they took the show and its mythology seriously, that RDM had a plan even if certain aspects were just "happy accidents" (I remember from his commentary during an earlier episode that the whole Athena and Helo on Caprica and having a child was just that, an idea that turned into something more that they didn't expect it, which turned into a huge plot for the duration of the series). RDM also knew where he wanted to end his story and wanted to do it his way, and I always thought that Kripke would fall into that same footsteps since he's repeatedly stated that he would rather end the show on its highest note rather than continue on and on like most shows do. This, I feel, is going back on that. And it makes me think if the CW had pressured him into agreeing into doing a sixth season.

See, I never held any opinion on Gamble until I read her interviews and her stances on the story, which she doesn't seem to quite get or understand that well, which is very odd considering she's been with the show since it started. I just really dislike her sense of direction regarding that, and I really really wished Kripke wasn't stepping down or at least have given the forerunning position to someone else, like Ben Edlund, who I do trust handling these characters unlike Gamble who should really stay the fuck away from characterization/writing of these characters with a fifteen-foot pole or something.
Jenni: spn › castiel » the raptureonlyechoes on April 22nd, 2010 08:02 am (UTC)
OH MY GODS THAT VIDEO OF MISHA AND HIS RUSSIAN FANS, OMG. ♥ ♥ FAVORITE. He's adorable.
Renée: MISHA COLLINS BITCHES!rogueslayer452 on April 22nd, 2010 05:53 pm (UTC)
SRSLY! WITH THAT LITTLE DANCE AND HIM SINGING/SPEAKING RUSSIAN, AND HIS FACE! HIS ADORABLE PRECIOUS FACE! *SIGH* HOW IS HE EVEN REAL? I DON'T EVEN. SO PERFECT. SO ADORABLE. JUST EVERYTHING ABOUT THIS MAN = LOVE. ♥
bold_seer: = castielbold_seer on April 22nd, 2010 04:13 pm (UTC)
HIS BITCHINESS AND RAGE TRANSCENDED THROUGH HIS TRAVELING MECHANISM AND I KINDA LOVE THAT.

<3

I realize it probably wouldn't be the same without Castiel being involved somehow. Which is why I hope and PRAY TO GOD AND ALL THE LORDS OF KOBOL that they make Misha Collins a regular for next season as well, despite my still skeptical feelings about it.

Skeptical feelings? DON'T DO THAT, YOU'RE MAKING ME NERVOUS. :/ I can't stand the thought of not having him there next season - the whole season.
Renée: Castiel. Adorkable.rogueslayer452 on April 22nd, 2010 05:50 pm (UTC)
I will forever and ever love bitchy!Castiel. <3333 They should have that side appear more often, because it's delicious.

I CAN'T HELP IT BB! I AM TORN WITH MIXED FEELINGS! D: But yeah, I can't imagine SPN without Castiel. He's just a huge part of my life that if he were to leave, well, I don't know what I would do. If the show is smart they'll keep him on, and if they're smarter (and Kripke understands our worries and doesn't want the fuck things up in its possibly last - finally - last season) they'll respect his character storyline and journey.
bold_seer: otpbold_seer on April 22nd, 2010 05:56 pm (UTC)
EVERY SIDE OF CASTIEL IS DELICIOUS.

*Dean!wink*
Renée: Dean/Castiel. UST UNFFF.rogueslayer452 on April 22nd, 2010 06:02 pm (UTC)
DAMN RIGHT HE IS!

APPROPRIATE GIF IS APPROPRIATE. ;D

The Large Purple Weed: Castiel BAMF walktracy on April 22nd, 2010 05:05 pm (UTC)
ran_cl made this, which you may enjoy. XD


Folks with captions said it was "erotically" so I am inclined to believe them!

It's that moment when you realize just how many people were wandering on the sidewalk just a few feet away while all of that was going on that you're kinda like, ummmm, why aren't people noticing this??

LOLOL I NOTICED THIS TOO. WHAT. But I wouldn't want Sam to see that video on YouTube, I'm sure it would make him D: D: D: a lot to actually watch Dean getting beaten up.
Renée: Castiel. I'm almost out of minutes!rogueslayer452 on April 22nd, 2010 05:43 pm (UTC)
LOL THAT PICTURE OMG. CASTIEL, ANGEL OF THE LORD, HARVESTER OF CARROTS! XD

Folks with captions said it was "erotically" so I am inclined to believe them!

Interesting. Well, if that's the case then I'm inclined to believe them as well. ;D

Yeah, you're right. Watching Dean getting whumped like that certainly would be kind of horrific for Sam to watch. But in an alternate version, I'm certainly there would be, ahem, something else happening that I'm sure Sam would be puzzled at (or confirming his suspicions for, as reading plenty of fics I'm kind of convinced that Sam would figure out the Dean/Cas tension before his brother did, heh ;D)
Trinatrinaweena on April 22nd, 2010 07:39 pm (UTC)
Then there's, of course, the bitchy telekinetic panic room door slam, which I personally love.

no one else has mentioned this and i think it was one of my favorite moments of the whole episode
Renée: Castiel. Show some respect.rogueslayer452 on April 22nd, 2010 08:01 pm (UTC)
It's because he has ATTITUDE and I LIKE THAT. ;D

Trinatrinaweena on April 22nd, 2010 08:04 pm (UTC)
omg *right click,save*

that moment just kind of makes my ovaries explode
Renée: Dean/Castiel. UST UNFFF.rogueslayer452 on April 22nd, 2010 08:19 pm (UTC)
EVERYTHING WITH CASTIEL IN THAT EPISODE MADE MY OVARIES S'PLODE BB. I'M NOT EVEN GONNA LIE. ;))))
goldenusagigoldenusagi on April 22nd, 2010 08:50 pm (UTC)
Kinda like the panic room door slam, this was his way of being kind of tantruming about

Bitchy!Castiel is awesome. He was sort of having a tantrum, wasn't he? :) He's upset and he wants everyone to know it, LOL.
Renée: Castiel. PWND.rogueslayer452 on April 22nd, 2010 08:55 pm (UTC)
He really was, and he let it be known throughout the entire episode. I think that's what fueled a lot of the BAMFness we saw. His tantrums and bitchiness gave him more ooomph to his fighting skills, lol.