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02 October 2010 @ 06:14 am
PSA: I have a voice, I will use it.  
Due to recent events in fandom, I think it's time to address certain issues to anyone who reads my journal.

As someone who has opinions on various subjects, I don't appreciate being told to silence myself because others don't agree with my viewpoints. I have the right to say how I feel about something, especially if it's something that I truly care about. I can be heavily opinionated and critical at times along with very positive and optimistic, and I always try to rationalize and come to a common ground on such issues that I previously had a momentary reactionary response to. Because of what has happened in fandom there's been a huge divide, by those who express their opinions openly and those who think anyone that doesn't think highly of something are "haters" and are purely negative. I don't expect everyone to agree with my stances or opinions, in fact I encourage opposition because I do want to have civil debates and come to a middle ground on certain things in order to understand them better or gain a different perspective. Anyone who has known me for a while knows I do this with my meta discussions quite a bit. I have a reactionary response, and then the analytical part of my brain starts working. That's just how I roll.

Am I less of a fan for voicing my opinions on something I disagree with? Absolutely not. I feel that as fans we should be able to discuss our likes and dislikes about what is happening in fandom, because otherwise if we only spoke positively where would that get us? Not everything is going to be sunshine and rainbows, in fact when pointing out flaws and the mistakes and even speaking out against what is happening, it may be noticed and might be corrected if TPTB are listening to their audiences. This is the purpose of a fanbase, you see, and there are plenty of examples of this having been successful because of the fans making their voices known and heard by the masses.

I am not apologizing for speaking my mind on certain things, and I'm certainly not going to censor myself just because others disagree with my viewpoints and don't want to hear it.

Also, please note that being critical isn't the same as being negative. There's a massive difference between hating a particular fandom and hating the direction and how it's being handled. I think many are confusing the two, and while I understand people are still running on high emotions and being reactionary, it's getting to be ridiculous having to explain myself and defend my stance to those who don't understand or refuse to listen.
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lloyd, i'm ready to be heartbroken: take a sad song and make it better.sapphirestar_ on October 2nd, 2010 01:35 pm (UTC)
THIS.

i completely agree with you. everyone's allowed to have their opinions, and everyone should have their own opinions - but what no one should be allowed to do is insult people and be rude just because someone thinks differently. it's good that people feel and think differently about things, even (and maybe especially) in fandom, because it might help us and other see things in a different light, and if not that, at least we'll all know what others think and are thus able to respect their opinions.

conversation and debate is never, ever a bad thing, and censoring oneself and others is a waste of time and accomplishes nothing. but to actually, deliberately pick fights with others? yeah, no. i've got no respect for people like that, people who are so close-minded they can't even bear to listen to opinions other than their own.

and sure, i get that there are people who don't like hearing someone say great stuff about something they dislike, or vice versa, but you know, one can just always walk away. there's always the back button.

stay strong, bb! ♥
Renée: Dean/Castiel. You and I.rogueslayer452 on October 4th, 2010 10:29 am (UTC)
and sure, i get that there are people who don't like hearing someone say great stuff about something they dislike, or vice versa, but you know, one can just always walk away. there's always the back button.

I feel the urge to want to say this whenever someone starts arguing with other people because of their opinions or telling them otherwise, because the beauty of the Internet is that while you might not agree with people you don't have to comment on it or create a ruckus. Having different thoughts and opinions is what makes things interesting. I have had pretty enlightening discussions with others from having civil kinds of debates, sharing our views and opinions on certain things. And even if we still disagree we are able to put it aside and still be civil.

Being told to be silent or not express how I feel about something is rather close-minded of some, even if it is a defensive reactionary response to something they love. Hey, I love it too, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with whatever is happening if I don't personally like it.
Revy: never aloneallodole on October 2nd, 2010 01:50 pm (UTC)
No one has the right to go SHUT UP YOUR OPINION DOES NOT MATTER to anyone. Not even when the opinion is very different from your own. If you don't like it, then well.. it is rather easy to ignore and leave it alone. My mind can't comprehend why is this so hard to understand to so many people, gosh.

Obviously I'm not talking about you, bb. I enjoy talking with you a lot. :)

I am very glad to strike up a conversation with people who are rational and actually respect other people's opinions and give me new things to think about, new points of view from where to look from. And yes, having civil debates with people who don't think the way you do is something I have grown very fond of. Not everything is perfect and while I don't really like to, say, over-analyze everything, talking about the flaws as well as what is good is something I very much enjoy. It would be dull if everyone thought the same of everything, after all.

What I'm trying to say is that I agree with you!
Renée: Castiel. Guardian angel.rogueslayer452 on October 4th, 2010 09:51 am (UTC)
Yeah, exactly. And as an example the basis of which we friended each other was because of having a conversation like that and even when we didn't agree or have the same opinion on certain things we still were able to be civil and nice about it. That's how I feel some people in fandom should be regardless, even if it means resulting into "agree to disagree" kind of chat and that would be that. Simple, right? But nothing can ever be that simple, esp in fandom where drama and shenanigans ensue over the most trivial things.
Revy: angels aren't innocentallodole on October 4th, 2010 10:24 am (UTC)
Exactly! It seems to be quite a hard concept for some people to grasp- that other people can have completely different opinions. And then they just don't even try to look at things from another point of view.
Especially in SPN-fandom and that's why I don't go around much, since people get very emotional over the show and are very vocal about their opinions (myself included). As you've said, there's a difference between being negative and being critical.

Edited at 2010-10-04 10:31 am (UTC)
Renée: Misha. O_Orogueslayer452 on October 4th, 2010 12:18 pm (UTC)
That fandom is incredibly loud when it comes to being defensive, as well. Like, I'm defensive too (particularly when it comes to Misha/Castiel, I tend to get protective of him) but I still manage to try and be civil and understanding, presenting myself in a way that is argumentative but poised, if you know what I mean. But there are other people who just blatantly attack others for even stating an opinion that they get either defensive or offended in that "how dare you speak of something against what I think!" kind of way and it's...rather scary, to be honest. It's like I can't conduct a proper debate with someone without someone else jumping in and attacking me because I dared to have an opinion. Or you know, say that I disliked something without being accused of being a "hater" and why I'm still watching the show if I can't say something nice.

Boggles the mind, this fandom. It gets very craycray in the worst kind of ways, the reaction after the premiere was an example of that especially. This is why I stay on the fringes of fandom, with my tight-knit circle of sane friends. :)
Revy: strange worldallodole on October 4th, 2010 12:27 pm (UTC)
Yep. I'm very defensive when it comes to Dean- and Sam and Cas, to a lesser extent, so yeah, I know what you mean. Still, it's not so impossible to at least try to be civil and listen to what others have to say.
It is scary! I've only recently dared to even comment in a SPN-community because frankly, I found a lot of people in the fandom scary as hell. I definitely know what you mean!

The reactions after the premiere- oh dear, don't even remind me. /sigh
Heh, same here. It's safer and at least you're surrounded by people who are capable of civil conversation, even when they don't agree. :D
Renée: Misha Collins. IDEK.rogueslayer452 on October 4th, 2010 01:01 pm (UTC)
They're known for being batshit insane so it's not really a surprise, but still. And really there's nothing wrong with being vocal about something, just as long as it's done maturely, which this fandom can often not be as you can tell. *sighs*

What's funny is some of my friends I've met through the SPN fandom so, heh. At least there's sanity somewhere here amirite? ;p
Revy: he's no heroallodole on October 4th, 2010 01:55 pm (UTC)
Indeed. And it's even more baffling to me when most of the audience are people in their twenties, one would think that there'd be more mature people around, but no. Oh well. Can't have everything, I guess.

You're right :D
Renée: Sierra. Incognito.rogueslayer452 on October 4th, 2010 07:31 pm (UTC)
It's really bewildering because as I'm 23, I feel like I'm far more mature than some people in fandom who are my age or even older than that. Bizarre, really. O_o
Revyallodole on October 4th, 2010 07:41 pm (UTC)
And I'm 20 and I feel the same. :(
ashley: #CHEVRON ▲ 13kitsu84 on October 2nd, 2010 02:00 pm (UTC)
I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING SAID HERE.

The notion of telling someone to "keep their opinions to themselves" when it comes to a certain television series infuriates me because I'm the type of person who strongly believes in everyone having the right to voice their opinions, no matter how harsh they may be.

For example, I love the Campbells. I feel they add quite the dark, mysterious aspect to the series. So it angers me somewhat to see all these reaction posts saying "OMG GTFO AND GO DIAF, WE WANT MORE WINCHESTERS". Still, I take everything in stride; I don't complain about all the negativity directed at the Campbells because frankly I knew they were going to be hated before this season even started.

Basically, where I'm going with this is it's their opinion. They have just as much right to voice it as I do. The problem is very few people in the SPN fandom seem to realize this. They fail to remember that each and every voice is important.
Renée: Nicci. Myself alone.rogueslayer452 on October 4th, 2010 09:23 am (UTC)
Basically, where I'm going with this is it's their opinion. They have just as much right to voice it as I do. The problem is very few people in the SPN fandom seem to realize this. They fail to remember that each and every voice is important.

This, absolutely. And it saddens and infuriates me that some tend to forget about that, and even sometimes forget that hey, there's a person behind that computer screen that have different opinions and likes than they do and they shouldn't be silenced no matter what. And like you, I take issue with that since I strongly oppose censorship of any kind and that's what this is. We might not agree, but to say that if I dislike something I should stop watching? Or that I should keep my opinions to myself because I'm spreading negativity? That's not only rude, that's controlling how I feel and how I should express myself.

I wasn't aware that fandom was turning into Big Brother....
she who hangs out in librariesvelvet_midnight on October 2nd, 2010 02:25 pm (UTC)
Oh no. See, this is why I don't get involved in the fandom aspect of fandom all that often, especially SPN-wise. A-men to everything here, woman!
Renée: Six. Warrior of God.rogueslayer452 on October 4th, 2010 04:52 am (UTC)
I merely stay on the fringes myself, but even some people on my flist were acting like this and I needed to make myself clear on my stance on this particular issue. Because it is ridiculous and I'd rather not be slammed and accused for daring to have opinions that oppose what is happening in a fandom I'm in.
I need more fandoms like CKR needs more sexylove_jackianto on October 2nd, 2010 02:38 pm (UTC)


Agreed on all points!

'it's getting to be ridiculous having to explain myself and defend my stance to those who don't understand or refuse to listen.'
Same here. Whenever I run into someone like that I just walk away because I learned a long time ago that they don't want to hear my opinion, they just want to badger me into having their's.

Having a different opinion doesn't make me a hater (if I really hate a show I just stop watching) and it certain doesn't make me a non-true fan, it just means I have opinions of my own.
Renée: Kahlan. HBIC.rogueslayer452 on October 4th, 2010 05:14 am (UTC)
We've had this discussion before about the arguments some have over what a "true fan" is supposed to be, and this premiere season it has gone nearly overboard. I haven't seen this much division in fandom just from stating opinions alone. Granted I think many still had reserved feelings about things like we did, and were vastly disappointed in hoping for something and once upon expressing those concerns many who did like it jumped all over them. It's unfair, but a reactionary thing as to be expected.

But then comes the wanking, the fighting, the defriending. It gets out of hand, and I don't want that kind of drama anywhere here. Our opinions may differ, but they're just as important and I shouldn't feel the need to be frightened of speaking my mind of the majority disagree.
I need more fandoms like CKR needs more sexylove_jackianto on October 4th, 2010 04:49 pm (UTC)
'But then comes the wanking, the fighting, the defriending. It gets out of hand, and I don't want that kind of drama anywhere here. Our opinions may differ, but they're just as important and I shouldn't feel the need to be frightened of speaking my mind of the majority disagree.'
Yeah, pretty much.
no good eitheralanna_zero on October 2nd, 2010 02:49 pm (UTC)
I couldn't agree more.

I had a time where I was basically "censoring" my thoughts on shows etc. because I didn't want to come off as "too negative", but then I thought "What the hell? This is MY journal, and I will write whatever the hell I want."
People don't have to agree with me on stuff all the time, not at all, but if I can deal with them being critical about something I like(d) then they should also be able to do that vice versa.
Renée: SPN. Castiel.rogueslayer452 on October 4th, 2010 08:13 am (UTC)
Exactly, and why is that such a hard concept to grasp?

I have people on my flist that like things that I don't, have opinions I don't agree with, but I don't jump down their throats for their views. Shouldn't the same courtesy be taken everywhere regardless anyway? Because when in doubt, agree to disagree and move on. Simple as that.
just a small town girl: [supernatural] archangel gabrielcarameltrap on October 2nd, 2010 04:01 pm (UTC)
YES. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

Everyone has the right to voice their opinions but it doesn't mean the right to be rude, hurtful and insulting. Not everyone has to be part of a hive mind, either.

Whatever happened to the 'respect my opinions and vice versa' where everyone can voice their opinions without being molotov'd for saying something different or disagreeing.
Renée: BTVS. Buffy Summers.rogueslayer452 on October 4th, 2010 08:10 am (UTC)
Whatever happened to the 'respect my opinions and vice versa' where everyone can voice their opinions without being molotov'd for saying something different or disagreeing.

When in fandom, all of that is forgotten.

Seriously though, there's plenty of people who you can have civil debates with and come to a middle ground on something. I've befriended many people because of those reasons, actually. It's mostly the handful of obnoxious folks that are the loudest that really stir things up, and those people get the most attention and it seems they have come out to play more recently. Fandom can be a fun place, but not when that happens.
Kevin Jonesmulder200 on October 2nd, 2010 05:19 pm (UTC)
Also, please note that being critical isn't the same as being negative. There's a massive difference between hating a particular fandom and hating the direction and how it's being handled. I think many are confusing the two, and while I understand people are still running on high emotions and being reactionary, it's getting to be ridiculous having to explain myself and defend my stance to those who don't understand or refuse to listen.

Word! We bitch because we care. Deal with it!

And you're right! It's your journal, your space. Do as YOU please.
Renée: Castiel. Guardian angel.rogueslayer452 on October 4th, 2010 07:49 am (UTC)
It's like, it's great that there's people out there that like what's going on, but there needs to be an understanding that not everyone is going to agree and they will speak out on their dislikes and concerns for a show that they care about. If people didn't care, they wouldn't bother even complaining they would just stop watching the show. And being told that I should stop just because some people don't want to listen to people speaking critically about the show is rather narrow-minded.

Thank you for your support, I really appreciate it. :)
(Deleted comment)
Renée: Caprica. Zoe Graystone.rogueslayer452 on October 4th, 2010 04:00 am (UTC)
Haters hating on others disliking something. It's rather absurd in a ridiculous way. Heh. But yeah, it's really nonsensical and just a way about ranting about others daring to have something to say that's not 100% positive. It's irrational, but parts of fandom are irrational at these kinds of times.
Tracy: Cas Don't Wanna Feel Todayalexwhitman25 on October 2nd, 2010 05:41 pm (UTC)
STANDING OVATION!!!

I had to make a similar post myself earlier when the spoilers first started leaking because some people didn't like that people were expressing negative feelings and thoughts about certain things.

I just don't get it. I wouldn't dream of telling people to stop squeeing and fangirling over things that I don't agree with. So I don't understand why they think they can tell me that I can't express a negative opinion or express disappoinment/concern about things that I didn't like or don't feel like are working. I didn't realize that fandom meant having to allow other people to tell me what I'm allowed to think and express.

Fandom is all about differing opinions, interpretations, and thoughts. People watch a show for varying different reasons. They will intrepret/look for different things. They will identify more with certain characters. They'll form attachments and connections to different ships. And if those things don't coincide with what you watch for, your opinions, your interpretations - well, that's fandom for you. You don't have to like it, but you don't get to tell people how they have to view things, characters, or ships. You don't get to decide what they can or can't express.

Renée: LotS. Cara.rogueslayer452 on October 4th, 2010 09:01 am (UTC)
And if those things don't coincide with what you watch for, your opinions, your interpretations - well, that's fandom for you. You don't have to like it, but you don't get to tell people how they have to view things, characters, or ships. You don't get to decide what they can or can't express.

Precisely. I have nothing else to add other than I absolutely agree.

But you know what really is interesting, is all the same-old arguments people are using like "if you don't like it stop watching the show" or my favorite of "what kind of fan are you?" when they see someone expressing a critical opinion about the show. If they would just stop and think about what they're saying, I think they would come to understand how narrow-minded and ridiculous they sound in telling other people how they should feel. But some people just don't get it, and probably never will, which is unfortunate because you'd think others would understand the "agree to disagree" concept, especially in fandom where there's bound to be massive amounts of differing opinions.

I can understand that with the premiere and such people were being very reactionary and defensive about their show and thinking that probably all the negativity was bashing the show (which it wasn't) but it's just shocking to see people still thinking that way after two weeks had passed from it.

Nobody should be frightened from ever expressing their thoughts in a constructive manner, regardless whether it's in a positive or negative kind of way.
Spooner: P.Daisies Piemaker slouchyspoonerknife on October 2nd, 2010 05:45 pm (UTC)
my two cents
I think you are always more than balanced and civil when you bring up things that may start a debate in yr LJ (so I assume you are on other parts of LJ too) and personally think that if ppl really love/care about their fandoms the are critical...but in a respectful way.
Renée: Blair Waldorf.rogueslayer452 on October 4th, 2010 01:32 am (UTC)
Re: my two cents
Thank you. :)

Being critical in a respectful manner is definitely the best way, I think. But right now we're getting the "if you don't like it then why are you watching?" attitude by those who don't understand basic constructive criticism. Even with things I love and enjoy I will end up making comments and criticizing it if I feel like they are straying away from the heart of the story and who the characters are.
Filomena: fucking Winchestersaubade_saudade on October 2nd, 2010 06:21 pm (UTC)
if you've got nothing nice to say, sit next to me ya fierce bitch.
i said something like this (though I was a lot bitchier and a lot less eloquent about it and i believe i included the words "fuck you" somewhere in there) in last week's ontd party for the premier when somebody started saying that if the haters didn't like the show they could stop watching it.

as if mindless, uncritical squee is the only way to approach fandom. i love squee. i think it's great if you turn off yr brain and turn on yr fanheart and just love everything canon source provides, but i don't think it makes me less of a fan if i sometimes criticize or am disappointed with the direction the show is going.

(had two arguments last week. one where someone defended Lisa to me by implying that my critique of her as a single mom unthinkingly clinging to a dude she'd had a one-weekend stand was foolish of her was somehow me condemning ALL single mom's ever & another one trying to defend the writing of the show through an ode to Jared's acting. cheap shots both, if i do say so myself.)

don't worry about it, bb. people in this Fandom sometimes turn into zealots, and i want to tell them that it's not a religion, that it's not love it blindly or leave it cold. that i can love the show just like i love everything else i do love in my life, with a forgiving but deep knowledge of its flaws.

they can have their own little corner of fandom, and i'llwe'll have mine ours.

Renée: Richard/Kahlan. Prophecy.rogueslayer452 on October 4th, 2010 11:50 am (UTC)
Re: if you've got nothing nice to say, sit next to me ya fierce bitch.
I actually have a friend who was bitched at over at that community several times for daring to have an opinion about something that the majority probably wouldn't agree with. And they were just engaging in a civil conversation with someone else and not really directing to anyone but between them, and it seemed rather....intrusively rude to request them not to have opinions in their own little thread of discussion, you know? There's definitely a lot of defensiveness in this fandom quite a bit, and it gets tiring having to explain myself to those people who try to say that I'm a "hater" because I disagree with certain directions the show is taking.

I would just love to approach a fandom with unconditional squee like some people do. However my brain isn't wired like that. I tend to be critical and analytical with anything I watch. And really, if one doesn't at least acknowledge the flaws in something, especially in something that they love, then they are really flying with blinders on.
Dragon Lorddragon_lord on October 2nd, 2010 06:47 pm (UTC)
I completely missed something...
Renéerogueslayer452 on October 3rd, 2010 01:04 pm (UTC)
Just fandom being irrationally craycray, really. In one fandom in particular, but mostly speaking in general. If you don't know the specifics then consider yourself lucky.
the infraggable crunkblualbino on October 2nd, 2010 07:13 pm (UTC)
:/ I haven't seen any of this behavior myself, but I believe that it's there. If there's one thing I absolutely hate it's people unable to deal with opinions, as in, their opinion is fact and therefore anyone who thinks differently is wrong.

Am I less of a fan for voicing my opinions on something I disagree with? Absolutely not.

Completely agreed. Hell, I think that might even make you even more of a fan, because you're willing to question what's set in front of you. You care enough to want it to be as good as it can be, instead of just buggering off because you can't be bothered to have an opinion.

(Somewhat OT, but that is exactly why I was never all that active in Glee fandom. If you didn't think everything going on was ~*~WONDERFUL~*~ and dared to express your opinion outside flock you would get jumped by a few dozen people telling you why your opinion was stupid.)
Renée: Kahlan. Beauty in the breakdown.rogueslayer452 on October 3rd, 2010 01:18 pm (UTC)
The irrationality that comes with arguing about opinions like that is completely ridiculous because of that "my opinion is right, yours is wrong, I will fight you until you agree with me" kind of mindset. Which many won't admit to, but that's the basis of creating overdramatic bitchfests with others just because they have a different opinion than they do.

That's not of topic at all, in fact that's precisely what I'm referring to because there are people who will have that kind of attitude of if you don't speak nicely about a fandom then you aren't a true fan. It's ridiculous. Fandom isn't a hivemind, we all have opinions and feelings about things that may differ from each other, and we're all allowed to express them whether people agree with it or not. To say that just because we speak against something doesn't make us a "true fan" is rather idiotic and an elitist thing to say. I know that fandom can sometimes act cliquish, but sometimes it goes too far especially recently.
OhBooth: Sarcasm - Sera Impalaohbooth on October 3rd, 2010 01:17 am (UTC)
AMEN!!!!!! Critical is SO different than negative, just becaue it is CONSTRUCTIVE criticism doesn't make you any less of a fan (I'm talking you here, not me, cause I'm really not anymore LOL)

But *fist pump of support for you* :D
Renée: Kahlan/Cara. Eated mah banana bread?!rogueslayer452 on October 3rd, 2010 01:26 pm (UTC)
Thank you, sweetie. :)

And yeah, even if I have strong feelings about something and would feel much better to capslock a rant about it and leave it like that, I tend to be more constructive with my criticism and that's not a bad thing. The key word there is constructive because even in my irritation, if I care about something enough I want to be able to express my concerns/dislike about it without being slammed for having an opinion. Being called a "hater" just because I didn't like something that happened is rather laughable because people throw it around loosely these days. Of course, I shouldn't pay mind to those people anyway, but it's everywhere now that it's getting ridic.

And this isn't just with SPN (even though it was a trigger to this rant), but it's everywhere I go from fandom to fandom.
goldenusagigoldenusagi on October 3rd, 2010 01:43 am (UTC)
THIS. I was sort of shocked by all the posts and references I saw to "the haters." And it's not like I'm going to crash someone's post who liked it and say everything that I thought was wrong with it--but to not want to hear anything negative is a little extreme. I didn't see any posts of the reverse (though I could have missed them), with people saying, "If you loved it, don't you dare tell me about it!"

And then I saw all these things basically saying, "If they hate it so much, WHY are they watching? Why watch just to complain?" Like this is fun or something. I'm watching because I'm addicted, and I want to love it. I'm complaining because I'm sad about some of the directions the show is going in.

Though now I'm seeing posts about 6.02, saying that they hope this ep put the haters in their place, show is back, etc. I liked 6.02 better, but all of the 6.01 issues remain. The only difference is, they were in the backseat for this ep, not the front.

On a somewhat related note, I wonder if the love/hate difference is split equally across fandom, or if different sections (Sam/Dean, Dean/Cas, gen fans) are more one thing or the other.
Renée: Castiel. Searching for answers.rogueslayer452 on October 4th, 2010 12:09 am (UTC)
Yeah, I've seen those around quite a bit since the premiere and it kind of shocked me as well. I could understand if it was a reactionary response because some will get heavily defensive to something they love, but I think these people are oversimplifying it. It's not a "love it or stop watching" kind of deal. I love it, I'm still a fan, but because of my love for the story and its characters I don't want them to ruin what we had going which is what I've been feeling they have lately. To say that I'm a hater for having an opinion? That's downright rude, really.

It's simple entitlement of some in fandom to say those things, to simply go "ha you were wrong the show is back now" kind of deal, but again that's taking the easy route over the damage that's already been done. I'm not going to change my opinion on that.

And of course there are those that go, "we can't do anything about it." Yes, we can, it's called having a voice and speaking out about how we feel. I know that we can't change the premiere and whatever else they already filmed, but allowing them to hear our complaints would definitely be an accomplishment by letting them understand that we don't like what they're doing, so hopefully in the future they will fix all of this.

On a somewhat related note, I wonder if the love/hate difference is split equally across fandom, or if different sections (Sam/Dean, Dean/Cas, gen fans) are more one thing or the other.

I've been wondering this too, actually. At first I thought it would appease those who didn't like the angels/apocalypse stuff and just wanted Sam and Dean back together hunting things. But I've seen those people unhappy with the direction of the premiere and this season as well. While we need particular statistical research on this, I definitely think it's a split in fandom. I mean, regardless the characterizations and everything else was way off that even Sam and Dean, their relationship with each other, didn't even mesh up to how they used to be, whether before or after all this shit that happened between them in recent seasons.
I need more fandoms like CKR needs more sexylove_jackianto on October 4th, 2010 05:34 pm (UTC)
'I'm complaining because I'm sad about some of the directions the show is going in.'
You and me both. I complain because I care. If I didn't still like Supernatural I wouldn't complain because I would have moved on to something else. I never been the kind of person who keeps watching something that they really hate, I watch tv to be entertained not bash my head against a wall.

'On a somewhat related note, I wonder if the love/hate difference is split equally across fandom, or if different sections (Sam/Dean, Dean/Cas, gen fans) are more one thing or the other.'
That is a fantastic question. I would love to know that too.
Tinkagwaevalarin on October 4th, 2010 06:37 am (UTC)
Let me make this short: THIS!
Renéerogueslayer452 on October 4th, 2010 09:03 am (UTC)
lol, thank you.

I felt like I shouldn't make such a post like this because everyone I know is very good at maintaining good manners and consideration for other people's opinions, but it gets to be rather claustrophobia when it's nearly everywhere, you know? Even some people were making posts about the opposite of what I wrote which to me makes...no sense. So I decided to make one of my own to make sure there's a common ground with all of this, at least of where I stand anyway.
Tinkagwaevalarin on October 4th, 2010 09:30 am (UTC)
Even some people were making posts about the opposite of what I wrote which to me makes...no sense.
Erm, no, that doesn't make any sense to me either.

I don't get why some people seem to believe that you can't criticise something you love. Especially if I love something do I feel the urge to speak up if there's something about it that I dislike. And that doesn't make me less of a fan, it just shows that I care.
But it seems there are people who really do not get the difference between disliking (or even hating) something and critisising something you love because you care.
Sure, if someone repeatedly tells me that a show sucks majorly and always has and everything about it is bad then I may wonder why they're wasting my and their own time. But if someone tells me that they love a show but don't like this or that aspect or what it is turning into then that's a whole different matter irrespective of whether I agree or disagree with what is being said.

And damn, would talking about a show be boring if everyone just agreed that everything is great and rainbows and "What everyone else said". I'm in fandom because I want to hear different views and opinions.