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18 November 2011 @ 07:43 pm
APPARENTLY THIS HAPPENED.  

THEY MENTIONED CASTIEL.

THEY MENTIONED CASTIEL!

THERE WAS ACKNOWLEDGMENT OF CASTIEL IN THIS EP, SEVERAL TIMES IN FACT. AND SAM BEING AWESOME APPARENTLY FOR SAYING SOMETHING ALONG THE LINES OF HOW DEAN HASN'T BEEN THE SAME DEAN SINCE CASTIEL DIED. THAT THE LOSS IS AFFECTING HIM. SAM WANTED TO TALK ABOUT HOW CASTIEL AFFECTED DEAN! \O/\O/\O/

FINALLY! AFTER BLATANTLY REFUSING ON ACKNOWLEDGING THAT HIS CHARACTER EVER EXISTED ON THE SHOW BEFORE AND HOW IT AFFECTED THE CHARACTERS THERE WAS A MENTION OF HIM. MORE THAN ONCE. AND IN A WAY THAT SAID MORE THAN WORDS ABOUT HIS CHARACTER AND HOW HE IS AFFECTING DEAN AND HOW OTHERS ACKNOWLEDGE THIS CHANGE IN DEAN BECAUSE OF WHAT CASTIEL MEANT TO HIM.

ALL THIS BEING FEATURED BECAUSE BEN EDLUND -- A.K.A. THE ONLY WRITER WHO CARES ABOUT THESE CHARACTERS ANYMORE -- WROTE THIS EPISODE.

ALL HAIL KING EDLUND!



I mean sure, the second episode of the season was questionable in and of itself since it featured a less than five-minute appearance of Castiel because he (or rather the Leviathans inside of him) dissolved into the lake without another mention or thought, the only worthwhile moment of that was Dean folding up the trench coat and taking it with him. But since Edlund has been less involved in the show this season than previous seasons, I don't think he had much of a say in that regard. However in this episode, it appeared he did have more of an influence to provide his trademark of episodes (apparently there were sandwiches that could kill you? oh and plenty of dick jokes) and the emotional aspects of Castiel and Dean and their relationship and Sam noticing and Dean not caring to get into it and all of that. So basically, this was an episode people enjoyed not only because of the Cas mentions but because it brought something back that has been missed from the show in quite some time. That special Edlund touch and, while I haven't seen the episode I can judge from people's reactions that it wasn't horrible or embarrassingly bad as the last several episodes have been lately. It's still not enough to get me watching again, but it's nice hearing some positive feedback, and from a writer we can all trust with characterizations and such. Particularly with Dean, since his character gets backhanded and written like shit quite a bit in the writer room.

BUT! BUT SOMETHING ELSE HAPPENED IN THIS EPISODE THAT I HAVEN'T REALLY GOTTEN A CLEAR IDEA OF JUST YET

SOMETHING HAPPENED TO BOBBY

SOMETHING NOT GOOD

IS HE IN TROUBLE? FORESHADOWING HIS DEATH? IS HE IN A COMA OR SOMETHING? WHAT IS GOING ON YOU GUYS! TUMBLR IS BEING ALL CRYPTIC AND WHATNOT AND I AM TRYING TO FIND COHERENT POSTS AND FINDING NONE AT THE MOMENT AND I NEED A RUNDOWN ON WHAT EXACTLY HAPPENED. PLEASE NOT MY BOOBY NO. D: D: D: D:

GODDAMN I NO LONGER WATCHING THIS SHOW BUT PEOPLE REACTING TO IT I FEEL LIKE I STILL AM. JUST OMG WHAT KIND OF TWISTED ROLLARCOASTER IS THIS??? I SAID I WAS GETTING OFF THIS DAMN RIDE BECAUSE IT'S BULLSHIT BUT SOMEHOW I GOT STUCK AND IT'S LIKE I'M STILL ON THE RIDE JUST WITH A BLINDFOLD ON OR SOMETHING. IDK WHAT THIS ANALOGY IS I AM JUST ROLLING WITH IT OKAY.

BASICALLY I'M ALL:



@ WHAT HAPPENED AND IDK HOW TO FEEL ABOUT IT. IT'S ALL VERY CONFUSING RN. BUT THERE YA GO.

GIVE ME EDLUND I AM HAPPY. NO MORE EDLUND AND REMINDING ME THAT GAMBLE IS STILL RUNNING THE SHOW, I AM JUDGING YOU HARD.


TL;DR BEN EDLUND IS THE ONLY WRITER I TRUST AND IS OUR SAVIOR FROM THIS SHOW BECOMING MORE OF A TRAINWRECK THAN IT ALREADY IS
 
 
Current Mood: anxiousWUT IS GOING ON
 
 
 
kaiyotekaiyote on November 19th, 2011 04:37 am (UTC)
BUT WHAT DID HE ACTUALLY SAY ABOUT CAS. Because tumblr was just freaking out and said he got mentioned but then I read a post that made it seem like he said something not so amazing about him? :\ IDK. EXPLAIN WHY YOU'RE FREAKING OUT, TUMBLR!

And yeah, apparently Bobby got shot in the head? That's what I heard. :P Although he isn't dead but it's looking pretty grim. Or uh. At least I think anyway 'cause who knows if SPN will actually go through with killing him. Like that'd be extremely moronic, but then this is SPN, so~

Edited at 2011-11-19 04:38 am (UTC)
twisting_vine_x: Castiel - I Need A Drinktwisting_vine_x on November 19th, 2011 04:57 am (UTC)
The gist of what Sam said was, "Since my head caved in and we lost Cas, Dean's been even more messed up than usual." Yes, he explicitly said the words 'we lost Cas'. Thank you, Edlund, from the bottom of my heart, for at least mentioning what losing Cas has done to Dean. ♥

As for Bobby... yeah. Not impressed. This shit is not okay.
Renée: Dean/Castiel. Between us.rogueslayer452 on November 19th, 2011 02:29 pm (UTC)
Just yeah, what twisting_vine_x is saying. lol

I mean, I didn't watch the episode just read reactions and I do trust the people I hear from because evidently these are the same people who are just as pessimistic and not liking the new season (or the lack of acknowledgment of Castiel at all) so seeing all the liveblogging capslock and quotes and praises all on my dash I was like, well damn. I got the gist of what was going on and I think Edlund just gave us what fans have been wanting for a long, long time.

And yeah, apparently Bobby got shot in the head? That's what I heard. :P Although he isn't dead but it's looking pretty grim. Or uh. At least I think anyway 'cause who knows if SPN will actually go through with killing him. Like that'd be extremely moronic, but then this is SPN, so~

Yeah, I don't know if they would kill him off. Make his situation look incredibly dire so Sam and Dean would wallow in despair for the rest of the time until they actually do something about it, as usual. But at the same time, you never know. With the shit they've been pulling lately of not having anything of value for the boys anymore, they would pull a stunt like killing Bobby off just for the hell of it. idk idk idk

(it's funny because people are in agreement all over Tumblr, NOBODY MESSES WITH BOBBY! but when it comes to someone like Castiel it becomes an issue between those who love him vs those who hate him, etc. lol this fandom idgi)
Encyclopædia Clevername: SPN huey lewisthefreshchuff on November 19th, 2011 04:47 am (UTC)
Cas has been mentioned several times since he wandered into the lake and lost his coat (I'M CLINGING TO THIS OKAY, HE'S STILL DOWN THERE, WONDERING WHERE HIS JACKET IS), but I only heard one mention of him tonight...? When Dean was stoned he admitted that "Since Cas and the black goo..." he'd been all messed up. But when Sam mentioned Dean being different, he said "since my head caved in" or something, which, though it happened WHEN Cas was around, Sam didn't actually say anything about Cas.

I don't remember any dick jokes! :( There's a new character named Dick, though. He was really cool, holy crap. I loved whoever that actor was.

Bobby got shot in the head; next episode he's in a coma, and since that episode's the mid-season hiatus, and this episode basically emphasized that both boys were on the edge of total mental meltdown, it really sounds like Bobby is going to die, and then, BAM HAITUS. Which I think would be really crazy and maybe interesting, because it would definitely sink the boys into a special spiraling pit of despair for the rest of the season.
twisting_vine_x: Dean/Cas - Don't Ever Changetwisting_vine_x on November 19th, 2011 05:01 am (UTC)
Actually, because Edlund is kind of a god, Sam was like, "since my head caved in and we lost Cas". The actual words 'we lost Cas' were mentioned. Unbelievable. Finally. Thank you, Edlund, for finally giving some acknowledgment of Dean being fucked up due to both of these things. it really sounds like Bobby is going to die, and then, BAM HAITUS.</i>

I'd say it's impossible, but given that nothing on this show is sacred - every character has been killed, Cas is 'dead', the Impalla has been stashed indefinitely, and the Samulet was thrown in the garbage - I think it's far too much of a possibility, and that kills me.
Encyclopædia Clevernamethefreshchuff on November 19th, 2011 05:05 am (UTC)
Wow I didn't even HEAR the "we lost Cas" part, WTF! Thanks for correcting me, that instills me with a little more hope that he's not completely forgotten (by one writer, at least)!
twisting_vine_x: Dean/Cas - I Gave Everythingtwisting_vine_x on November 19th, 2011 05:07 am (UTC)
IKR? The words were actually spoken! My brain nearly exploded with disbelief! And yeah, it is certainly nice to know that at least one writer remembers Cas and understands what he meant to Dean... sigh.

Edit: Also, wow, formatting fail on that earlier comment. Fail. Definitely reflects my current mindset.

Edited at 2011-11-19 05:08 am (UTC)
Renéerogueslayer452 on November 19th, 2011 02:21 pm (UTC)
Okay, so this is the first I've heard about the Impala, what exactly happened to it? :O
twisting_vine_x: Sam and Dean - Impalatwisting_vine_x on November 19th, 2011 05:35 pm (UTC)
The leviathans are taking over everywhere, from the lowest levels of society to economic and political tycoons, which means they're in the police force, and are running traces on all of Sam and Dean's aliases, all the damn time. Also, leviathans can shapeshift, and they shot up a bank/a restaurant/several other places while wearing Sam and Dean's faces and driving a 67 Impala, so the boys are basically living rough in shitastic cabins and the Impala's been put in a garage somewhere. :(

Edited at 2011-11-19 05:36 pm (UTC)
Renée: SPN. Castiel.rogueslayer452 on November 19th, 2011 05:43 pm (UTC)
Ah. Well then. :/
Renée: Dean/Castiel. Between us.rogueslayer452 on November 19th, 2011 02:19 pm (UTC)
Yeah, basically what twisting_vine_x is saying.

The importance of Cas being mentioned here is how it's being addressed, how this is affecting Dean deep inside. Now one can argue we already knew this with his ~two second nightmare of him going into the lake or whatever, but this is the first time it has been outright acknowledged in the show. Finally. After all this time, Edlund gives us something. One writer finally gives the fans the thing we've been wanting for a long, long time. PRAISE EDLUND. THE ONLY WRITER WE TRUST.
Belindabetaartemis on November 20th, 2011 04:44 pm (UTC)
There certainly was an Edlund humor abundance of "dick" jokes, such as the whole Dick Roman montage with "Rise of Dick" and Dean mentioning he thought Crowley was just talking about "dicks" in general, not actually Dick a person. The Dick character isn't actually new since he was introduced a few episodes back, but I don't like the character nor does the actor really impress me. I was bored of him when he first appeared as the Leviathan Boss and I'm still bored, he just doesn't intimidate me, in fact, he's made me fall asleep on more than one occasion. Maybe I'm just still upset that they didn't let Misha run with the Leviathan thing because he was amazing in the last few min of the premiere and scared the crap outta me more than any other actors playing the Leviathan so far!
Renée: Castiel. Guardian angel.rogueslayer452 on November 20th, 2011 06:20 pm (UTC)
Maybe I'm just still upset that they didn't let Misha run with the Leviathan thing because he was amazing in the last few min of the premiere and scared the crap outta me more than any other actors playing the Leviathan so far!

MTE. They have wasted so much potential right there.

Never mind it would have actually made sense considering, you know? The Leviathans could have been taking over Castiel's vessel, pretty much taunting the Winchesters, taunting Dean especially, and it would have given him more visible time to grieve about the fact his friend is either dead or being taken over by these frightening beings and his sadness/depression/angst to be focused on that (instead of this Amy dealio which makes no sense, but I digress on that front.) And of course once getting his head back on he would have something to fight for and determined to get his friend back, you know?

Plus, it would have given Misha something to do on the show. He wouldn't have been demoted, he just would have spent the majority of the season not playing Castiel but exercised his ability at this other character. I mean, we all know he has phenomenal sense of acting skills, like whoa. Just, yeah.

They wasted so much potential here. It's sad and enraging because this happens all the time with this show. :/
twisting_vine_x: Supernatural - Bobby Is Badasstwisting_vine_x on November 19th, 2011 05:01 am (UTC)
I'd have something coherent, but I'm too busy dying inside.
Dom sits downmercury973 on November 19th, 2011 05:25 am (UTC)
Still haven't watched a single episode since 7x02. I don't enjoy this pain. =( Booby
Renée: Amy Pond. The Girl Who Remembered.rogueslayer452 on November 19th, 2011 02:12 pm (UTC)
lol, I'm only going by what other people have said, honestly.

I doubt they're gonna kill Bobby, but at the same time you never know. His character has hit many close calls before.
Dom sits downmercury973 on November 19th, 2011 04:19 pm (UTC)
Hey- this show is about Sam and Dean and if you're not a fan of only them then GTFO!

(just kidding. I get stabby when I see those posts about Cas)
Renée: SPN. Castiel.rogueslayer452 on November 19th, 2011 08:18 pm (UTC)
Those "you're not a true fan if..." arguments are simply ridiculous, like it's an entitlement contest. And it's funny, since those arguments and commets are only made in regards towards any fan/supporter of Castiel who are legitimately upset about what was done to his character, or anyone having any kind of criticism over the show.
twisting_vine_x: Dean/Cas - Don't Ever Changetwisting_vine_x on November 19th, 2011 05:50 am (UTC)
Ps. Full conversation transcript, as Dean's sleeping off monster-induced sickness (turducken... long story, not important) in the backseat.

Sam: So you think he's okay?
Boby: Yeah, he's alright
Sam: Good. So... you don't worry about him?
Bobby: You mean before the turducken?
Sam: Yeah. I kinda mean, well, like ever since my head broke, and we lost Cas. You ever feel like he's going through the same motions but he's not the same Dean, ya know?
Bobby: How could he be?


My heart is broken.
Renée: Dean/Castiel. Bittersweet.rogueslayer452 on November 19th, 2011 02:10 pm (UTC)
Thanks for the transcript. I only heard incoherent things from Tumblr before going to bed so I didn't get a chance to get the entirety of what was said (although wasn't Cas mentioned twice in the ep? People were flailing all about that Cas wasn't just mentioned once but twice, or at least implied?)
twisting_vine_x: Dean/Cas - Don't Ever Changetwisting_vine_x on November 19th, 2011 05:33 pm (UTC)
He got two whole mentions. The bit with Sam and Bobby, and then Dean was accidentally stoned off his ass and going on about Cas and black goo (as bled by the leviathans)... something like this.

"I mean, I feel better than I've felt in months. Cas, black goo... I don't care about any of it, cause I don't care about anything right now. And ya know what? I don't even care that I don't care."

It was kinda heart-breaking. </3
Renée: Dean/Castiel. Between us.rogueslayer452 on November 19th, 2011 05:40 pm (UTC)
It's heartbreaking, and it really says something about Dean's state of mind at this point. There's been speculation about how Dean is becoming the person 2014!Dean had become, emotionally distant and not caring about anything anymore, and basically becoming a cold-hearted asshole. What Sam said to Bobby, Dean's comment (whilst stoned), it's becoming dangerously obvious he's becoming that version of himself.

As much as I want to smack Dean so many times for being a hypocritical and inconsiderate asshole, this just isn't good. :/
twisting_vine_x: Dean - No More Paintwisting_vine_x on November 19th, 2011 06:12 pm (UTC)
Yeah, I hear you. And no, no it's not good at all.

Dean: This is stupid. You know, our quality of life is crap. We've got Purgatory's least-wanted everywhere, and we're on our third the-world-is-screwed issue in, what, three years? We've steered that bus away from the cliff twice already.
Sam: Someone's gotta do it.
Dean: What if it the bus wants to go over the cliff?
Sam: You think the world wants to end?
Dean: I think if we hadn't taken its belt and all its pins away each year, then yeah, the whole enchilada would have offed itself already.
Bobby: Stop trying to wrestle with the big picture, son. You're gonna hurt your head.


Dean is not in good place. To put it so mildly it's painful. :(

Edited at 2011-11-19 06:14 pm (UTC)
Renée: Castiel. Whumped :(rogueslayer452 on November 20th, 2011 10:00 pm (UTC)
I think I'm slightly bitter about this because we've done this song and dance with Dean before, going down a dark path before miraculously turning around but having little to no hope about anything, just going through the motions. Dean has always had low self esteem about himself, etc. I mean, perhaps I'm too bitter and angry at the show, but they keep repeating the same shit with the brothers over and over again with little development of their characters. When you notice this pattern each season it becomes tired and boring.

I'm just tired of them wasting so much potential with Dean's character, never allowing him to grow and mature and learn from his mistakes and experiences, and I guess it's just frustrating because it's a miracle they have survived this long. idk idk
phillipe_hacini on November 20th, 2011 08:18 pm (UTC)
Well Friday's episode was the first one I've 1) Been able to watch all the way through; 2) Actually contemplate re-watching.

It wasn't even the Castiel mentions, but just something about the writing, I'm guessing. I've actually deleted all the episodes I've downloaded this season since there is not a single one I'd watch again, and the majority bored me so much that I didn't even complete them! (Again, this is about appreciating good writing NOT about shipping!)

As for Bobby - we saw no body, so I'm guessing dramatical effect? And Bobby? Rocked this episode!

I did actually enjoy this ep - first one for ages. I tried to watch last week's controversial ep, but it was so damn boring I didn't get past the first 10 minutes!!! Not being a Wincest shipper, and having some discernment, I'm finding the writing lately pretty ordinary, dare I say even redundant?
jakwezstjakwezst on November 21st, 2011 01:57 am (UTC)
Oh that was me btw!

But I'm re-watching now and a couple of things: 1) Dean is not straight - I'd say he is definitely being played (very subtly) that way and 2)the only reason he mentions Cas is because he's stoned out of his gourd!!! So, it's like unconscious, involuntary even - him speaking without his usual filters. Mr. Edlund is a clever, clever man. Dean could, after all, have mentioned Cindy and the kid (forget his name) but no, it's Cas that he cites as being the thing that's causing him serious pain. He says I don't care anymore and don't care that I don't care, but that's really indicative of the fact that he knows that his brother and 'creepy uncle' (best line of the ep!) KNOW damn well that he should and in fact does care about losing Cas. That's why he says this 'don't care' line in the first place and how the other two show the audience (by their reactions)that they know something's up with Dean. It's such a small part of the episode but illustrates just how a good writer operates. So little used to say so very much.
Renée: Castiel. Angels bleed too.rogueslayer452 on November 21st, 2011 02:54 am (UTC)
That's why he says this 'don't care' line in the first place and how the other two show the audience (by their reactions)that they know something's up with Dean. It's such a small part of the episode but illustrates just how a good writer operates. So little used to say so very much.

This is something so important that the other writers seem to not understand or grasp in their own writing. It shows precisely why Edlund is an exceptional writer in his own right, and why many of us prefer his writing to the other writers on the show. And why he should have taken over the show in the first place. He knows his shit; the manner of his storytelling, of handling characters individually (he writes Dean very very well, unlike other writers *cough*GAMBLE*cough*) and just everything.

I wish Edlund could just write all the episodes this season. He could definitely turn this trainwreck around and actually make it bearable and redeemable.
Renée: Castiel. Show some respect.rogueslayer452 on November 21st, 2011 03:06 am (UTC)
Taking this from your first comment:

I did actually enjoy this ep - first one for ages. I tried to watch last week's controversial ep, but it was so damn boring I didn't get past the first 10 minutes!!! Not being a Wincest shipper, and having some discernment, I'm finding the writing lately pretty ordinary, dare I say even redundant?

The redundancy of these last two seasons are killing me, to be honest. It's funny how Gamble tries to sell her claim that this isn't redundant at all, when it's exactly the same as previous seasons before. New Big Bad, but same bullshit with the brothers. It's ridiculous. It makes me more bitter because they got rid of one of the most fascinating characters that was a breath of fresh air and actually added layers and interesting new places for the show to head into. -___-
jakwezstjakwezst on November 21st, 2011 12:35 pm (UTC)
...they got rid of one of the most fascinating characters that was a breath of fresh air and actually added layers and interesting new places for the show to head into. -___-

Exactly this!

What this season's been missing is Castiel. I know, but seriously it is no more than the stone cold truth. You haven't watched the eps, but I have and the thing about me and SPN is that I have always loved the show, love Sam and Dean so damn much (don't ship them, though) and while there are plenty of things on which we don't see eye to eye (excessive gory violence, aiming it at the stupid (18 - 25 year old guys) rather than the slightly more intelligent and discerning viewer and the whole religiosity thing) I count myself a 'true fan'. This season, for me, has been shit. No word of a lie, no bitterness or exaggeration. It's been utter tripe. Why? Because they are treading old ground each and every episode! I mean from whence comes all this weird squee I've been seeing since the season premier? The episodes have been shit.

The way I see it is that they raised the damn stakes with their decision to get rid of Castiel and 'return to what they do best' because now I'm sat thinking: okay, show me; show me how and why the narrative becomes new, interesting and relevant without Castiel or the Angels. And yeah, you've guessed it, I'm still sat waiting.

The Wincest shippers, I'd have to conclude, are more easily satisfied than I am and that's fair enough, right? So long as Sam and Dean are central they'll count that as a victory. See I want that too - I want Sam and Dean to be central. I just don't appreciate the price we're being asked to pay in order to achieve that - shit writing and redundant storylines. To me that'd have to be called somewhat of a Pyrrhic Victory and, I dunno, I wouldn't call that a good thing.

Slightly different note: do you think those who ship Sam/Dean actually want them to go out Butch/Sundance style? I don't understand Wincest so it's not really something I can properly analyse. Maybe that's part of the fucked up relationship dynamics that seems to be so attractive when it comes to this pairing. Note it's not the incest that gets to me - I genuinely have no objection to that per se - it's the dysfunction parsed as some romantic ideal that puts me off.

To me Wincest is like the elephant in the room of slash fandom that no-one's even bothering to discuss. It says something really fundamental about slash fandom and it astonishes me that no-one talks about it. Again, it's NOT about the fact that it's an incestuous relationship. That's part of it, but NOT in the way most people might believe. But I'm so tired of talking about what's up with this fandom. Aren't you?

It's only since the end of Season 6 that I've got involved with the fandom (note, I've watched since the first episode and have read Wincest fic, read meta, but never got particularly involved with the fandom side of things. Lol - Season 6 was so atrocious I think I had to assure myself that I wasn't the only one absolutely fucking appalled by what was obviously going on with the PTB) so I'm actually unfamiliar with Ben Edlund. But, seriously, this episode - for me - was in a different class. It's a keeper for me, and it wasn't that it was such a great storyline or whatever, just that a writer who knew his craft was gently flexing his muscles - showing how it was done. It was a breath of fresh air and yeah it'd be nice to see him write more episodes.

You do know, I hope, that Dean has the trenchcoat in the boot of the car. It's not the Impala anymore, but he takes the coat with him - a treasured object. It's significant because he had to actively transfer it to this car and has to count it as one of the things he can't do without - will never allow to be lost or destroyed.

It's the subtle things that work for us, guys. Please keep doing them.

jakwezstjakwezst on November 21st, 2011 12:36 pm (UTC)
Oh and one last note about the ep, Cas and Dean. Dean is talked to a few times - by Bobby - and it's really quite telling that when he isn't off his face stoned he has no trouble deflecting any damn thing anyone tries to say to him. When the filters are gone he talks about his feelings - losing Cas - as something that is supposed to make him hurt like a mothafucka - highlighting that by letting us know that the drug in his system is making him numb - and he fucking likes that, fucking LOVES that.

If you watch any ep at all this season I'd go for this one. You'll be able to recognise just how clever Edlund is. I notice that none of the ep reactions take in this very significant fact (the Cas mention). Wonder why.