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29 February 2012 @ 05:59 am
You're shitting me, right?  
Someone made the remark that the reason they are upset about there being a woman!Watson isn't because Lucy is a woman, but because Watson is originally a male character. Because according to them, Sherlock Holmes is a timeless ~legacy of stories and it would be disrespecting the original works if there were any kind of genderswap involved. They then went on in saying that genderswapping is just a "bad fanfic" concept and how Sir Arthur Conan Doyle would be furious and ~turning in his grave~ to find out one of his characters is being turned into a woman, and blahblahblah.

Really, people? Really?



Let me tell you a story about Starbuck and Boomer from Battlestar Galactica, who were both men in the original series until the re-imagined series decided to make both of the women. Oh, you betcha there was outrage from fans of the original, seething and raging and sending hatemail because how dare they make iconic male characters into women! This is a disgrace to the original! But then the mini-series for the newer Battlestar Galactica aired and suddenly everyone shut up with their hate and anger (except for a few, including Dirk Benedict himself, where he sees a woman Starbuck as "emasculating" the role altogether and that is a deeply problematic mindset to have.) But the new BSG thrived and now, Kara "Starbuck" Thrace and Sharon "Boomer" Valerii are considered to be iconic and empowering in their own way, and rightfully so. Granted this was due to how groundbreaking RDM's Battlestar Galactica was in general, by them pushing beyond the boundaries and making political statements about gender equality, and it was their intentional to change the genders of Starbuck and Boomer and add another layer on the many layers they had for the show that the original series didn't have.

Aside from that, we have the case of Kono from Hawaii Five-0, who in the original series was a man before the reboot changed the character to be a woman (and ironically, Grace Park plays both Kono and Boomer, lol). And let's not forget Warehouse 13, where they made H.G. Wells (you know the famous English male author) into a woman.

We don't know if Elementary is making the conscious decision in being progressive in this sense, which I highly doubt they are, but by suggesting that you can't genderswap characters all because you think it would disgrace the original source is plain ridiculous. Genderbending is not impossible and can work, as it has been proven by the examples above. If this bothers you so much, well, then that's your own damn problem.


People are being so ridiculous and outrageous with this, I can't even. Everyone just needs to take a step back and chill the fuck out. It's getting way out of control from both sides at this point, far beyond mere just stating your opinion, and I'm kind of tired of hearing about it, tbh. And yeah, I kinda got a little worked up over what this one person said, but it's reflective on a common (and problematic) mindset and it really just struck a cord in me that I needed to let it out.
 
 
Current Mood: blahblah
 
 
 
Shonaillekalikahuntress on February 29th, 2012 02:40 pm (UTC)
Didn't you know , being a woman is awful thing to be and diminishes the character.**rolls eyes.**

Sadly the creators of elementary believe it too since their Watson isn't in the army and is a disgraced surgeon. **sigh.**
Renée: Haven. Audrey Parker.rogueslayer452 on March 2nd, 2012 12:15 am (UTC)
Sadly the creators of elementary believe it too since their Watson isn't in the army and is a disgraced surgeon. **sigh.**

Well damn. :/

Is it so impossible to have the characters remain canonically correct even if adapting a modern day version, including with the genderbending? I mean if fandom can create stuff like this, you'd think these people would be able to remain faithful in those aspects of their characters and who they are. Just, ugh.
philstar22philstar22 on February 29th, 2012 06:47 pm (UTC)
Ug. There are good reasons for disliking the gender swap for Holmes. Why do people need to use sexist and icky reasons?
Renée: Daenerys Targaryen.rogueslayer452 on March 2nd, 2012 05:30 am (UTC)
Ugh, I know. But according to them they weren't being "sexist" but rather just "stating an opinion"....which just happened to have sexist undertones to it. Idk, people just don't think before putting their own opinion out. And fandom (of both sides) are getting deeper and deeper into this and everyone just needs to step back and take a breather.
(Deleted comment)
Renée: Cara. Warrior.rogueslayer452 on March 2nd, 2012 05:28 am (UTC)
I don't really mind the gender situation, I'm more concerned over the implications of what this could mean by them switching things up just so they can have a sexual tension dynamic between them that they couldn't do if the characters were both male (or both women), or why they didn't just make Sherlock a woman, etc. I already mentioned this in my previous post though.

I kinda enjoy genderbending because it changes things up, it has worked in other forms before as I mentioned above. Unfortunately very few get it right, and I have a feeling this show is going to get it all wrong. Already they aren't having their Watson having been in the military and that in itself is troubling because it says, "women cannot be capable in the military so we are demoting her to something that only women can do, dur dur dur!" Which is quite offensive, from where I stand, to be honest with you. :/
jaмeѕιr вenѕonмυм: community → britta.stillglows on February 29th, 2012 07:54 pm (UTC)
I'm not thrilled with this show, but already speaking out against it for those reasons? Come on people.
Renée: Alex. Behind the mask.rogueslayer452 on March 2nd, 2012 05:42 am (UTC)
It's funny, before people were just dismissive of the CBS adaptation but this casting happened and it caused a huge reaction. Some are legitimate concerns, while the majority of people are just....overreacting? Having too many wild assumptions? And there's drama created between fandoms and it's just out of control.

I mean, for me I've decided that it can either have potential (and hoping they take advantage of having a woman!Watson and seeing the amazing possibilities that don't fall under the same-old tropes) or end up being incredibly horrible (using those stereotypical tropes and just giving us nothing new/being offensive/etc). It all depends on how they choose to handle it.
Encyclopædia Clevernamethefreshchuff on February 29th, 2012 09:29 pm (UTC)
I kind of feel like Elementary has been doomed from conception, so if it does get canceled quickly out of the gate, it's going to be really funny to look back at how much drama was generated back in its development stages.
Renéerogueslayer452 on March 2nd, 2012 02:41 am (UTC)
Heh, pretty much.
I need more fandoms like CKR needs more sexylove_jackianto on February 29th, 2012 11:56 pm (UTC)
'We don't know if Elementary is making the conscious decision in being progressive in this sense, which I highly doubt they are, but by suggesting that you can't genderswap characters all because you think it would disgrace the original source is plain ridiculous.'
Hear! Hear!
Revy: Strangersallodole on March 1st, 2012 03:40 pm (UTC)
I'm kinda on the fence about something like that because I tend to like staying true to the original canon, which includes keeping the same gender... (I can't judge how well Kono and Starbuck and Boomer were changed from their original counterparts since I haven't seen the original series, but I do like all three.)

Sure, it's stupid to bash on it just because "watson just CAN'T be a lady now ugh why ladies suck" but it's not stupid to be doubtful of their true intentions on making him a woman, no? Aaand aybe it's just me but I tend to hate genderbending a lot, especially if it's a favourite character of mine and especially if it's done badly, like making the lady-version of the character ~damsel in distress~ and more frail and more weak or uncharacteristic etc or over-sexualising her to the point of disgusting. If it's done well and with good intentions then by all means!

This just reminds me of the question I keep thinking whenever something like this comes up. How much can you change from the original canon so it will still be recognized as such? Can you just slap Sherlock Holmes on something that has nothing in common with the original?

I doubt I'll watch Elementary if not for nothing but curiousity, but I do hope they'll keep lady Watson as awesome as her male counterpart. It just isn't Watson if s/he doesn't posses certain same qualities as her male counterpart, if you get what I mean. I'm already very iffy about her tbh, not making her an army doctor but seemingly someone who can't do her job properly etc.... :/

Dunno what I'm saying but this entire drama is so stupid and makes me really uncomfortable, ugh.

ps. I just have to give an example: i'm in some anime-fandoms and they do love their genderbending. usually it's guys-to-girls and well... when every genderbent guy has huge boobs which seem to pop out of her/his shirt and a miniskirt and there's nothing to connect it to the original character, then I will have a fucking problem with it. That said, over-sexualising pretty much never happens the other way round. The guy-version just tends to be very normal and true to the original character.
Renée: Babydoll. Fighter.rogueslayer452 on March 2nd, 2012 12:10 am (UTC)
Well I can understand that concern, as I stated in my previous post with my conflicted feelings over the entire issue (them doing this just for the romance aspect, making Lucy's Watson more of an object rather than a partner, etc.) That in itself is problematic and it's what my main concern.

But that's not what this person was going on about, and unfortunately I've seen this same argument used for other things. Hence the Starbuck and Boomer comparison, because it's the exact same reaction and it really ticked me off, especially since they were in the H50 fandom and had no problems with them switching genders of Kono but was quickly to dismiss the entire concept of a woman!Watson all because Watson is ~male in canon and how dare someone disrespect Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's work like that! >:\

In regards to the whole canon thing, I personally rather like genderswapping if they keep certain aspects of the character intact. In fact, that's the only thing that really works, they keep certain recognizable traits while creating their own separate voice.

I doubt I'll watch Elementary if not for nothing but curiousity, but I do hope they'll keep lady Watson as awesome as her male counterpart. It just isn't Watson if s/he doesn't posses certain same qualities as her male counterpart, if you get what I mean. I'm already very iffy about her tbh, not making her an army doctor but seemingly someone who can't do her job properly etc.... :/

This is something I'm deeply concerned about, too. Already with not keeping with that aspect of canon is putting an already bigger damper on the whole thing. And of course the people behind the show are going to go, "well you wanted different from the BBC and this is different" which yeah, no. Sorry, try again. I don't know how this is gonna go, already there's so much fuss over it but -- if you're going to do a modern take on a classic story like Sherlock Holmes, and genderbend, you have to make it work within the canon, which requires thinking creatively. Fandom has done it many, many times (hence why finding genderswapped things on Tumblr is so much fun, because those people make it work without losing the character's voice through the bending of genders.) So if they can't do that then they already fail on massive levels.

We're just gonna have to wait it out and see, and I love Lucy, but if they waste her abilities on something like this I will be majorly disappointed and upset.