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16 March 2016 @ 02:46 pm
March Question Meme: Day Sixteen  
Asked by denorios:

If you could wipe one work of literature from existence (book, play, poem, your choice), what would it be and why?

As a disclaimer, I'm not a fan of censorship of any kind, no matter whether I intensely dislike a particular book and/or author. What I don't like, someone else may find enjoyment in, and I'm of the mind that even if something is complete crap it can be used as a learning tool.

With that being said, however, I think erasing Fifty Shades of Gray from existence would greatly improve the world. It continually spreads misinformation and harmful stereotypes of the BDSM community, never mind that an abusive relationship is horrifically glorified through this lens. The fact that it rose in popularity absolutely baffles me. If there is any kind of literature I would eradicate from existence, it would definitely be this, especially when you learn how it got published in the first place. Anything that does more harm than good is worth being removed.
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endeniendeni on March 16th, 2016 10:47 pm (UTC)
LOL the story behind Fifty Shades of Gray is basically a cautionary tale of how you don't do fandom... *shakes head* And I can't fathom how people can find such poorly written stuff so enjoyable (and I'm thinking about the Twilight series too). On the other hand, I think there might still be something valuable in stories like Fifty Shades of Gray and Twilight itself, if only because they focus on desire from the female protagonist POV (which is rare in mainstream media) and, if nothing else, by capturing the interests of a new category of readers it might serve as a springboard for them to find the good stuff (stuff that, among other things, gets BDSM right). Or, well, one can always hope, right?
Renéerogueslayer452 on March 17th, 2016 02:50 pm (UTC)
Or, well, one can always hope, right?

I'm also hoping that anyone who liked Twilight, young girls especially, have grown to understand and acknowledge the major flaws of the writing and story itself, and have since gained some perspective of the things they have consumed in media. Same with anyone who initially picked up FSOG thinking it was harmless erotica, since there is a lot of online discussion about this particular topic on how harmful it actually is -- and how there are other options for some empowering female romances out there, from supernatural YAs to BDSM-esque eroticas that focus more on the healthy, consensual kinds of relationships.
endeniendeni on March 17th, 2016 04:01 pm (UTC)
/and how there are other options for some empowering female romances out there, from supernatural YAs to BDSM-esque eroticas that focus more on the healthy, consensual kinds of relationships/ - Yes, exactly. ;)
Samarsakuraberries on March 17th, 2016 12:19 am (UTC)
man, that story behind FSOG is some really shady shit...like a commenter on reddit said, reminds me of the whole cassie clare debacle...

oh, and this is totally unrelated to your entry, but are you still watching pretty little liars? I ask because this latest episode was...interesting.
Renée: Pretty Little Liars. Spencer Hastings.rogueslayer452 on March 17th, 2016 03:03 pm (UTC)
I debated on adding her too, since everything surrounding her plagiarism (from her fanfiction to her published work today) is absolutely bonkers, and that her success is based from shadiness as well. Basically, the whole aspect of using fanfiction or plagiarism, or a combination of both, for gaining published popularity is kind of a red flag in general, imho.

As for Pretty Little Liars, I kind of stopped watching after my last review. I did read what happened in the finale and I'm just rather, meh. I might marathon the episodes I missed just to see, but overall I just got bored with it. Nothing was enticing me to what was happening, from the predictability to the messing around with relationships, I wasn't that interested anymore. Which sucks, but it wasn't unexpected. I had a feeling after the mid-season finale that things were going to be further downhill and even though I had thought that the five years forward would've been intriguing, it just didn't grab me. So, I think I might be done with it.
Samarsakuraberries on March 18th, 2016 01:00 pm (UTC)
Yeah, I get that. Especially the messing around with relationships that reached its peak in the finale. Made me grit my teeth every time, because it's so predictable.

I did think it was interesting how they revealed who the new "A" was so quickly! I would have thought they'd drag it out, but I guess they decided to go down a different path this time. I will say that, while the reveal about Charlotte's adoption feels totally out of left field, it's a pretty creative way to breathe new life into the series. And hey, they managed to work in a twin reveal.
Renée: Pretty Little Liars. Emily.rogueslayer452 on March 19th, 2016 01:14 am (UTC)
Especially the messing around with relationships that reached its peak in the finale. Made me grit my teeth every time, because it's so predictable.

One of my favorite things about this show up until this point has been, no matter what happened, the girls weren't going to fight over a guy, and the established relationships would have their ups and downs independently without any of that interference, especially with having them crossing over relationships just for the drama of it all. It's what separated it from other shows and I deeply appreciated it, and the fact that they crossed that line bothered me so much. It's so unoriginal and it proves that they are running out of ideas for keeping up the ~drama. I knew I couldn't stomach it and reading up on what happened, yeah, I'm just done.

I did think it was interesting how they revealed who the new "A" was so quickly! I would have thought they'd drag it out

Perhaps a sign that the show is soon coming to an end? I know some of the actors have alluded that the seventh season may be their last (or at least hoping it is, anyway, no matter what Marlene claims.)

Edited at 2016-03-19 01:15 am (UTC)
Julie: Noein ★ ritualragnarok_08 on March 17th, 2016 01:31 am (UTC)
Yeah, I wouldn't miss FSOG if it was wiped out from existence either.
you half wit scruffy looking NERF HEARDER: Star Wars: Leia 4hanorganaas on March 17th, 2016 02:37 am (UTC)
A FUCKING MEN its a disgrace to the BDSM community.
Renéerogueslayer452 on March 17th, 2016 03:11 pm (UTC)
Seriously, I was astonished and appalled at all the inaccuracies, especially the dangerous ones. I know people will cry, "it's just fiction", but part of being a writer is researching and using the correct information to shape your story.
rhoda_rants: jokerrhoda_rants on March 17th, 2016 03:05 am (UTC)
Yep. Can't stand that woman. I hate that she got famous off it, because she embodies so many of the worst stereotypes of fandom culture. I just want to shake people and say, "DON'T LISTEN TO HER! WE'RE NOT ALL LIKE THAT!"
Renée: Elementary. Joan Watson.rogueslayer452 on March 19th, 2016 11:54 am (UTC)
She's definitely one of the few out there who give fandom a bad name, because fanfiction is something that is meant to be a non-profittable piece of fanwork entirely for fans to enjoy. Fanfiction already has a bad reputation and isn't liked by many creators because of this exact reason, and she just shamelessly took this and got famous off of it, for no other reason than simply being an opportunist who wanted to gain publicity.

But what's interesting about this is that it continues down the rabbit hole of the rights of fanfiction. There is no law against fanfiction except for copyright infringement if the creator of the original works enforces that, but if you change the names of the characters and publish it, despite it being well-known fanfiction of another piece of work, is that enough taking legal action? It's unethical sure and shady as hell, but can be that challenged? And if so, what would that mean for the rest of derivative fanwork?

See, this is where things get complicated and that is exactly the reason why fanfic writers, and fandom overall, are scared about. There is always that fine line and when someone crosses it it creates a whole mess of problems and issues.
we can't give up. that's the deal.omgpeyton on March 17th, 2016 03:23 am (UTC)
I don't think this would be missed either. There's plenty of sexy reading material out there that isn't.. just god awful. I actually watched the film with 0 expectations. Since I hadn't read the book, I felt like I had no room to judge or put my 2 cents in unless I saw it for myself. It was mildly creepy but.. nothing that bothered me TOO much until the last 30 minutes or so of the movie. It's so horrific and awful to watch that I couldn't believe I WAS ACTUALLY SEEING WHAT WAS I SEEING.

I also heard the Jamie Dornan's wife was upset over his involvement in the film? That could have been made up though since there's a lot of bad stuff surrounding this franchise.
Renée: House Martell.rogueslayer452 on March 19th, 2016 02:17 am (UTC)
I also heard the Jamie Dornan's wife was upset over his involvement in the film? That could have been made up though since there's a lot of bad stuff surrounding this franchise.

I'm not entirely sure about that particular detail, but I remember when they were attempting to get actors involved with the movie many of them opted out of auditioning. There was one actor they got who was initially cast who basically backed out shortly thereafter, probably after actually realizing what they were getting into. Many people are aware of how horrible it is, but somehow it still managed to get a movie made and people still watched it. I know that there will always be an audience somewhere no matter how bad something is, but still. :/

Also, I know the actors are contractually bound to always say positive things with what they're working on no matter what their reservations may be, but it still disturbs me that the actors say that this is a "love story", when it clearly is not.
icecream_junkieicecream_junkie on March 17th, 2016 07:48 am (UTC)
I never read FSOG, but I wouldn’t miss it either, mainly because I think it’s never a good idea if something that was formerly a fanfic based on somebody else’s work gets published. That takes away the whole “but we don’t (and don’t want to) make money off of it” argument. No wonder if authors aren’t too happy about people writing fanfics about their characters if people end up publishing those stories later and actually make a lot of money off of it. You can change the names of the characters all you want, but people still know it used to be a fanfic.
Renéerogueslayer452 on March 19th, 2016 11:36 am (UTC)
That takes away the whole “but we don’t (and don’t want to) make money off of it” argument.

Exactly! Seriously, that is one of the biggest Golden Rules of fandom that we have all collectively agreed, never sell your fanfiction solely for profit, which is why there were a lot of disclaimers in front of fanfics for a long time to protect themselves from copyright infringement.

It's not only obvious this is published fanfiction since it's pretty much common knowledge at this point, but this woman clearly doesn't care about fandom. She, along with several others out there who shamelessly publish fanfiction for profit, are the ones who give fandom a bad name.
R.: well you were a magazinependeries on March 17th, 2016 11:26 am (UTC)
I can't believe people actually made it the whole way through. The writing is appalling.
Renéerogueslayer452 on March 17th, 2016 01:39 pm (UTC)
I know that there are many books with terrible writing that get published all the time, but the fact that this one in particular got so popular, especially with how shady the process of it getting published in the first place, and so many people legitimately thinking it's good writing and a good story, is utterly confusing. And I'm not one to usually judge, since one person's garbage is another's treasure, and believe me I've read things that may be considered trashy, but this is on another level of WTF.
Kelly: stock+ladykisseshotteagues_veil on March 17th, 2016 03:08 pm (UTC)
Ooohh, what a good question! And a good choice! As a kinky person AND a former bookseller, I have sooooooo many rants about that bloody book.
Renée: Six. Seductress.rogueslayer452 on March 17th, 2016 06:26 pm (UTC)
It just bothers me that anyone who doesn't know anything about BDSM culture will be immensely misinformed from those books. True, it could be a gateway to other, more accurate books on the subject if they are curious enough, but it just is so grossly misrepresented (through an abusive, stalkerish relationship at that a la Bella and Edward) and just, ugh.
Kelly: hp+clawtextlearnedsoulteagues_veil on March 17th, 2016 06:53 pm (UTC)
Well, it was born of Edward/Bella smutty fanfic, so no surprise there. :/

Obv. I agree wholeheartedly.
Kiki Maykikimay on March 17th, 2016 06:11 pm (UTC)
Thanks for friending me!

Well, I'm also against censorship, but this thing wasn't worth to be published in the first place so XD

Anyway, people read the books and watched the movies so I guess that they wanted the product. Ugh.
Renéerogueslayer452 on March 18th, 2016 05:13 am (UTC)
:) ♥

I've never understood how something so atrocious, in both writing and story, could have such a wide audience. Well, I guess I can, considering the amount of trashy reality television there is. But I mean, it's not even remotely erotic (some say it's very vanilla despite the ~kinky~ context, and cringe-worthy written sex scenes at that), so it just baffles me how it can appeal to anyone. I mean, if you want erotica, there are definitely thousands of better books, esp for beginners, of the genre.
Galadriel.: Random ✽ Feminismsixphanel on March 17th, 2016 10:23 pm (UTC)
Oohh! When I read that question I automatically thought of that book as well!

I read the post about how it got published and... wow! :O
Renée: Haven. Audrey Parker.rogueslayer452 on March 18th, 2016 05:17 am (UTC)
It's amazing the lengths people will go in order to get money and attention, and this woman is basically the very definition of an opportunist.
Avox in Arcadia: Lorneperpetual on March 17th, 2016 10:47 pm (UTC)
Haha, I would have had exactly the same answer to that question. Including your disclaimer.

The one phrase I'll always remember from FSOG is "enervating energy". PLEASE JUST HIRE AN EDITOR WITH A VOCABULARY.
Renée: Kahlan. Facepalm.rogueslayer452 on March 19th, 2016 12:28 am (UTC)
Omg, yikes... :S

It's kind of amazing how so many authors out there just really don't know how to write, or refuse to have editors, or just abuse the thesaurus in thinking that would make it sound more "legit" in order to be published. Also, as a general rule, if what you're writing sounds ridiculous when spoken out loud, it probably is.
 grace ∞ the best damn woman that I ever seen: → aos | hacker princessafastmachine on March 18th, 2016 12:05 am (UTC)
DEFINITELY going to have to agree there. *shudders* and it's made fic/stories for that kind of thing really even harder to find bc everyone is trying to write their own version of it and it's all terrible. it's crap based on crap based on crap.
Renéerogueslayer452 on March 19th, 2016 12:19 am (UTC)
It just makes me sad that now anytime someone mentions BDSM in pop culture, or any kind of kinky sexy times, they always have this atrocity in mind, and it's so depressing and kind of infuriating, tbh. Like, that is not a good example of erotica/BDSM fiction at all. :/
telly telly bo bellylusimeles on March 18th, 2016 01:17 am (UTC)
ha, ha, that is a veeeery legitimate choice.
Renée: Elementary. Joan Watson.rogueslayer452 on March 18th, 2016 02:08 pm (UTC)
I was trying to think of other books since I know this one is an easy target (for obvious and legitimate reasons), but as much as I don't like certain books for whatever reason I don't wish they never existed completely. At least many agree this should never have existed, or at least never should have gotten the attention and popularity it unfortunately has.
chiara: text: thisstellicidio on March 18th, 2016 01:32 am (UTC)
Couldn't agree more!! I've never understood how this became so popular and I'm still baffled by it. I tried reading the first one because I was curious but it was so horrible I quit after a couple of chapters. And that's only considering the bad story and writing. Obviously the whole things is much more complicated but putting that aside I don't get how people who don't think about those issues can enjoy such bad writing...
Renée: Pretty Little Liars. Spencer Hastings.rogueslayer452 on March 18th, 2016 01:47 pm (UTC)
Obviously the whole things is much more complicated but putting that aside I don't get how people who don't think about those issues can enjoy such bad writing...

It's amazing how so many people just cannot understand how horribly written it is. And I say this as someone who has enjoyed her fair share of trashy fiction, but at least I acknowledge that it's trashy. But some out there legitimately think this is good, or worse, think it's ~kinky and sexy, and that is so mind-boggling.
chiara: movie: star wars yoda not amusedstellicidio on March 18th, 2016 06:59 pm (UTC)
Completely agree! Of course it's okay to read trashy fiction, I mean as long as we enjoy something who cares right? But the fact that people think FSoG is actually good stuff is just so strange and wrong. I'm usually all for getting people to read in the first place and people reading what they actually enjoy but I just can't with this. I've calmed down over it by now but it used to get me so angry.

What also bothers me is that this woman made a ton of money of those books when there are actual good writers out there who don't. I mean I'm not an avid fanfic reader but even I have read fics that were so well written that E.L. James has done.
night_owl_9: Claire Randall - dancing dustnight_owl_9 on March 18th, 2016 05:09 am (UTC)
Holy crap, I could not agree more.
squint13squint13 on March 19th, 2016 02:41 pm (UTC)
Wow. I knew it was Twilight fanfic, but I didn't know the rest. D: I've never read it - I toyed with the idea this past Summer, as I pretty much just wanted to read it so I could actually talk about it whenever it was brought up (cause I knew a lot of people found it badly written and misinformative), but I decided that nah, there are books out there I actually want to read, I'm not gonna waste time on this.

I don't judge people for what they read, but I do wish people were more aware that the books are problematic. I think I'll have to make a list of good BDSM books and just casually go "hey, do you know of [title]? It handles BDSM much better." Problem still is, ofc, that I haven't actually read FSOG and know little about the writing firsthand, and I also know nothing about BDSM.

(I have two friends who've read them and liked them, and I know a couple of aquaintances who've read them and like them, but I can't for the life of me figure out why. Everything I hear, pretty much, makes them seem terrible. And I'd get it if they liked them despite them being bad, but they think they're genuinly good in general. Idk. *shrugs*)