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25 April 2010 @ 01:47 pm
SPN: "Hammer of the Gods" Episode Review + Meta  
My heart still aches, I'm not gonna lie. It was hard going through this episode once, let alone twice. My thoughts are mostly meta, mostly about my feelings on what happened. I have a few words and bones to pick with you, Kripke.

Supernatural 5.19 "Hammer of the Gods"

Dean and Sam arrive at a very luxurious hotel in the middle of a rainstorm, only to quickly discover that it's not what it appears to be. Apparently the hotel has been rigged and is overrun by numerous of gods, including Kali the Hindu goddess, and the Winchesters were specifically brought there as these gods try to find a way to stop the Apocalypse from occurring in fear of getting pummeled in the middle of the wreckage between Heaven and Lucifer's battle. Just then, Gabriel appears and tells the boys that he's there to save them. Unfortunately his cover is blown by Kali, who attempts to kill him, but Gabriel cleverly disguises the version she stabs as a decoy. Dean talks with him about standing up in this fight against Lucifer, and just as that happens guess who shows up to unleash some deadly wrath? Just as the Winchesters seem to be cornered Gabriel shows up to face-off with Lucifer, allowing the boys enough time to escape. During this confrontation Gabriel tells his brother about the mess of the apocalypse and tells him straight up that he's fighting for humanity's side. With a few emotional words from both, the confrontation ends when Gabriel tries to trick Lucifer but, his brother is much quicker than that, and winds up getting stabbed and killed by his own sword. The end of the episode has the boys being told through a prerecorded message from Gabriel about having an alternative way of defeating Lucifer through the rings of the Four Horsemen, which then leads to us being introduced the the disgusting Pestilence before the credits roll.

This episode is more or less about the emotional ties between the siblings in Heaven and how utterly dysfunctional they really, truly are. This episode also prompted interesting, if not frustrating, emotions about where the story is heading with only three episodes left of the season.


Tribute to Gabriel, Our Favorite Archangel: "That was me standing up."



There were no words to describe how emotionally drained I felt after watching this episode. I never was this wrecked after a character death on this show before, so this was like a punch in the gut especially since Gabriel was a character I was really beginning to love, particularly after such an awesome retcon reveal about his true nature earlier in the season, only to have him return to be sacrificially killed off. It's a moment that leaves you gaping and just completely in a dull state between screaming and crying.

I definitely had strong feelings about what happened to Gabriel, however I'll return to that momentarily. Here, I just want to discuss the character and his evolution from his first appearance on Supernatural to where he ended up in this episode, all the way from his progression as a character right to the end.

When we first meet Gabriel he was known to us as the Trickster, a demigod who pulled deadly just desserts on people to teach them lessons, sometimes even for pure shits and giggles. The Winchesters encounter him twice during season two and in season three, when he appears again to repeatedly killing Dean and torment Sam in a Groundhog Day style, which was all in order to teach Sam a lesson about accepting fate. This second meeting with the Trickster becomes highly relevant when he appears once again this season in 5.08 "Changing Channels" where he's teaching the boys a lesson in accepting their roles in the Apocalypse, thus revealing his identity as not a Trickster, but rather the archangel Gabriel who had, long ago, left Heaven and was underneath "witness protection" so to speak by hiding his true guise from other paranormal beings, including other angels, because he wasn't liking the familial fighting upstairs. This was definitely a retcon, but it was an awesome retcon of all retconning the show has ever done. I honestly can't explain why that is, I guess because all-in-all it just makes sense. In that moment when the Winchesters are confronting Gabriel about this, we learn more about the ins and outs of his character then from his previous two appearances on the show, which in my opinion is absolutely awesome. Gabriel went from being just a recurring character on the show to having an in-depth, compelling character storyline that is attached to the greater mytharc of the series. That, to me, is absolutely fantastic to build that off of such a character like the Trickster. I don't know if Kripke was planning on doing that exactly, but we knew from "Mystery Spot" there was something else going on with the character that even without the angel storyline he would have brought him back anyway, to fill in those blanks about his involvement with the boy's lives.

The thing is, none of what was revealed was inconsistent with his already established character. From before he was neither on the good side nor the bad side, and here we learn that he left Heaven so he couldn't choose sides between his brothers, Lucifer and Michael. Gabriel's always been neutral, although it might have seemed cowardly considering his actions to leave and abandon his family in Heaven all because he couldn't deal with their issues, that's just who he was. Well in this episode, that certainly changed, and again it wasn't a surprising decision of his to choose to fight alongside humanity. He finally stood up, took Dean's words into consideration from "Changing Channels", and I think that's precisely what Gabriel needed to hear.

You could definitely tell he didn't want to choose sides, but in the end he kind of had to, because from Dean's words he needed to stand up to his family, stand up to Lucifer, make his stance and decision rather than hiding or running away from such confrontations. The thing I loved the most, though, was how fucking emotional his confrontation with Lucifer was. Both of them were getting teared up, because they're still brothers despite all this hoopla happening and I think that's perhaps the best scene from this entire episode, honestly. The fact that these angels aren't just going after Lucifer just because; Lucifer might have been disowned by Heaven but they're still family, still siblings that love each other. Gabriel says this to Lucifer and you could tell it was sincere, but he needed to make his position on this war absolutely clear. It's what got him killed, and while I have greater thoughts on the subject itself, I think the emotional parts is what justified such a sacrifice.

While I feel like his character potential and growth had been cheated from this episode somewhat, I really loved what it brought us about him as a character having gone from a simple Trickster facade to a very three-dimensional character that was slowly becoming a fan favorite, if he wasn't already from before.

Gabriel proved himself worthy of fighting the good fight in this war. He is officially an honorary member of Team Free Will and will always be remembered for his sacrifices. He won us over in the end, from his reveal to his complete turnaround and alliance with the Winchesters. His heroic action for standing up and stepping it up was of such bravery and courageousness. Gabriel, we love you and you will always be remembered for all that you did, how you stood up and just went all out. ♥




Sacrifice in Supernatural: Well-Deserved or Waste of Opportunity?

Despite his heroic acts I felt rather cheated by having such a fascinating reveal of his character to having him being brought back again only to be killed off without any further development in between to add more insight to his character growth. There seems to be a common trend on Supernatural that with recurring and secondary characters which are brought back are killed off, and this gag seems to be getting old and tired and, quite frankly, kind of irritating. Particularly when you have such characters, like Gabriel for instance, that have a chance to develop and evolve further when they are a huge contributor of the main mythology.

So the question is, when does self-sacrifice stop being heroic and start becoming repetitive for plot devices?

When we think about earlier in the season with Ellen and Jo Harvelle and their deaths in "Abandon All Hope", while tragic as it was, I understood why it had to be done. It was drawn out, so their deaths together was an inevitable sacrifice in this war and they did so honorably. It was sad and it also provided the emotional point for Dean as he continued down that path of despair and hopelessness over the course of the next several episodes, which that too is understandable for part of his character development this season. Not that I didn't want more of Ellen and Jo, but it was an understandable choice which I still felt was handled beautifully. Although with Gabriel's, it seemed like we were cheated from further exploring his character development because we'd just discovered who he really was, his involvement with everything and bringing him back for his second appearance as the archangel Gabriel only to kill him off without thinking of a Plan B (and there could have been a Plan B, him using a decoy as a distraction for the boys to escape and all of that) and to use his final words as kind of a last-minute "oh by the way, this is how you can defeat Lucifer!" which, in all honesty? Sounds like a deux ex machina route to take, particularly with only three episodes left.

Not that I didn't understand why they had the standoff between Gabriel and Lucifer, I thought that was brilliant and genius and seeing an archangel versus archangel conflict and confrontation has been a long time coming, let me tell you. It brought up a lot of emotional points between the brothers and what's been occurring with this Apocalypse, and seeing that despite Lucifer's reputation he really is just a child wanting to be loved and having a temper tantrum and that he still loves his family despite having been disowned. But I felt like there could have been something else, an alternative of him dealing with Lucifer rather than going on an obvious suicide mission just to prove himself by standing up to his family. Shouldn't he be able to do that while being alive?

Or perhaps, had the show given Gabriel a few more episodes prior to this one instead of just two this season, would his death have been more rightly justified. As it stands right now, it seemed like they had such an amazing opportunity of setting up a potential ally amongst the Winchesters but they wasted it just so they can wrap up the Apocalypse storyline. It makes me wonder if they're purposefully trying to make it seem like the brothers can never have any allies on their side, that they're always by themselves, alone. Which that is both sad and annoying. I felt if there was a perfect opportunity for them to have an ally on their side besides Castiel, then Gabriel would be the perfect candidate for it because, with his character and his journey and background that we learned, especially from Dean's words to him in "Changing Channels", it makes sense. He would have been that recurring character that would annoy the boys at times but still help them out from time to time when necessary. But they didn't do that, and it was painful to watch because you just don't want to believe what happened. Because it's Gabriel. Not only is he an archangel, but we've been tricked before into thinking his character had died but he always came back. I was hoping for that gag to run at least again this time, but alas we saw his angel wings around his body. ;___;

So yeah, those are my thoughts. I understand that this is the Apocalypse and sometimes sacrifices are necessary, but there are other times when the writing could have done something different, there could have been more explored with certain characters. Gabriel was brought back this season to be revealed of actually being Gabriel, only to find his second appearance as the angel would be his last, and that's highly disappointing that they would waste such a great opportunity of a character we've known for a long time to not further explore his character background or at least have him help in a not!suicide mission. I mean, when you have episodes like the previous one where Castiel had just sacrificed himself through the carved sigil on his chest to this having Gabriel sacrificing himself with Lucifer, knowing all too well that there was zero chance of him surviving. It just makes you think what is secure anymore? Who is safe, who isn't? How many more are going to be sacrificed for the sake of the Winchesters? It seems like so many have done so already, sometimes without really knowing it. I think that's the main issue here, with characters that are secondary all bets are off on whether they live today or die tomorrow.

I also think part of me is disappointed because this would have been a great opportunity for Castiel to regain his hope and faith that not all members of his family have hidden agendas and are against him, that having another ally beside him with fighting alongside the Winchesters can be that silver lining that not all is lost with what he's been fighting for. Because honestly, from their last encounter, it seemed like there was hope for having a reunion of Castiel and Gabriel, and I think Castiel would have been proud of Gabriel for standing up for what he believes in. Yet another opportunity wasted and lost.

My heart aches for Gabriel, because he really turned himself around and only to end like this? Emotional scene for both him and Lucifer definitely, which I appreciated, but still. I don't know. My feelings and emotions were all over the place concerning this.


Memorable Moments of the Episode:

++ The title of this episode was originally called, "OMFG!" I think that would have been the more appropriate title given the general reactions to it. Seriously.

++ More BSG alumni to guest-star on Supernatural to add to the list. That more than a dozen they've had on the show, and they have yet to make a BSG joke? I find this all too funny.

++ It's also funny that Dean has yet to get with a Cylon. He didn't flirt with Number Six when she was on the show, and Tory pretty much shot him down hard here. lol

++ With having Lucifer killing all the gods effortlessly left and right it made me think of the allegory used in BSG: "the One True God shall drive out the many", and seeing as how we already have a former BSG cast member coming from a show where monotheism versus polytheism was commonly known, who was playing a Hindu goddess in this episode, it makes that scene much more interesting. More with my fandom parallels, let me show yous them.

++ Speaking of which, I, like many others I'm sure, are displeased with the treatment they had of these many different gods from different religions. Although I understand it was Kripke's homage to Neil Gaiman's American Gods book, and this is, after all, the apocalypse and showing us the power of Lucifer, that still doesn't excuse that having a room full of powerful gods being tossing around and swatted like flies. I know, it's fictional, but it just didn't sit right with me that that's all it took to take out these powerful gods. I'm actually surprised that Kali was spared after all that bloodshed. And she's a woman too, shocker! But yeah, you'd think that a building with that many powerful deities they would have been able to stop or weaken Lucifer at some point, but no. Instead they were killed instantly. It just didn't make sense and I'm still not pleased with that turn out.

++ Needless to say though, I loved seeing Lucifer's bloodshed being seen after all this time. A long time coming really, I've been wanting to see this powerful and merciless Lucifer since the beginning of the season, so having him in the episode like that was a pleasant surprise.

Besides, SURPRISE!MARKSHA BRINGING IN THE BADASS AND BLOODSHED WILL NEVER NOT BE AMAZING IN MY FANDOM. \O/



(lol that last gif makes it look like Marksha is going "now gimme mah jam!" lolforever)

++ Richard and Marksha completely made this episode, honestly. They really knocked their performances out of the park, particularly with their scene together which was superbly done, even if I didn't like the outcome and it hurt like whoa and I cried like a little bitch. Nonetheless, they worked so well on the screen. Could you imagine if Misha had been there also? A Castiel/Lucifer/Gabriel standoff? Holy shit, that would have been too awesome for words.

++ STILL CRYING OVER GABRIEL, OKAY PPL? STILL CRYING. THESE ANGELS ARE BREAKING MY HEART WITH THEIR ISSUES, BETTER THAN THE WINCHESTERS THAT'S FOR SURE. D:



;____________________;

++ I will say, Gabriel had the best lines this episode. ("Lucy. I'm home." A+++!) So hilarious, and he enunciates these lines perfectly for the effect, did y'all notice that? Amazing. ;D Anyway, I think what I loved about this episode was that this wasn't about the Winchesters, this was about Gabriel and what he was going to be standing up for. You could tell he really did have a soft spot for the Winchesters that I think grew overtime, and his affection for the human race plus Dean's words to him previously really brought his final decision that hey, he likes people. He likes Earth. He's not willing to allow either brother destroy something that's so precious just because they can't deal with their own family dramatics. He's for humanity, perhaps the first angel since Castiel we've seen that's willing to fight for humanity, and THEY FUCKING KILLED HIM AND THAT IS JUST F;LASJDFKASDF NO. JUST NO SHOW, NO. YOU DON'T DO THAT. *seethes*

++ SURPRISE!GHOSTFACERS WAS SURPRISING AND LOLARIOUS! XD XD XD LOL WHUT SHOW. NICE PROMOTION THERE.

++ The gods bitching at each other was kind of hilarious to see, and then we see Tory!Kali using THE FORCE DARTH VADER STYLE on one of them. Awesome stuff. I think I like Rekha Sharma better as Kali than Tory, because at least she's not annoying and she's pretty kickass. And she got to make-out with Richard which, that lucky bitch I is jealoouussss.

++ THEORY: Tory!Kali captured some of Gabriel's blood so he's thereby forever bound to her, although that was just a irrelevant device used in the episode that had no further significance, so despite everything that happened between Gabriel and Lucifer could it be that, if she still has those vials, that she could use some of her goddess mojo and bring Gabriel back? Since he is bound to her and she's definitely more powerful than the other gods we saw (unfortunately) that could be one possibility right? I know I'm reaching here, BUT I STILL HURT M'KAY LEAVE ME 'LONE.

++ It's kind of sad that Sam and Gabriel didn't have much scenes together. Or much Sam scenes at all this episode, really. I admit, I do like Sam/Gabriel as a pairing because I think it's pretty damn adorable and so many fics have proven that adorableness. If only there was more screentime with them. :( It did seem like it was more leaning of Dean/Gabriel though than Sam/Gabriel, with how Dean and Gabriel's scenes were and how they interacted ("Bite me, Gabriel." "Maybe later, big boy.") Which we all know though that Castiel would be pretty pissy if he learns his older brother might have a hankering for his human boyfriend. ;)

++ I love that, despite it all, Gabriel got the last word and the last laugh. That DVD insert was just awesome, and I love Sam and Dean's expressions. Casa Erotica will never be the same for them. Well, I think Dean might return to the DVD because, well, he's Dean.... ;)

++ ANOTHER THEORY: Gabriel is still alive and inside the DVD! ;D Okay, that's a bit much, but you can't blame a girl for trying. Heh.

++ PESTILENCE!! Disgusting and very vile, nasty shit, but still. YAY FOR PESTILENCE! Also, I think this was the first time in a long while that we ended an episode without the boys going over their issues. It was left with a cliffhanger, which I liked. That has resemblance to a certain S1/S2 format which that kind of formatting I enjoy. The cliffhangers, having it not end with just the brothers. It's a nice change.

++ The Horsemen rings reveal was kind of meh, only because I think it would have been more effective had they introduced that concept episodes ago, not when we have only three episodes left. The planning of that seems a bit misguided and it doesn't work that well I think, but then again we aren't that sure. What if they're a red-herring? What if the rings do have a significance but it's not what defeats Lucifer, at least not in the way they think it will? I have said that I'm feeling apprehensive and worried only because I know they're trying to wrap things up this season, but knowing this show there might be some more hidden surprises for us. I just hope it all makes sense because right now I'm not as strongly convinced with how the story is going like how it was in season four. Just saying.

++ GABRIEEEELLLLLLLLL!!!! ;________; I MISS YOU SFM, COME BACK TO ME!


Overall: It was a good episode, a nice blend of comedy and emotional points when the preview was misleading it to be a pointless filler episode about a "hotel hell" of sorts. It could have been better with how they organized it honestly, or at least concerning the writing of the gods and how they dealt with that aspect of the episode. But I think the strongest points was definitely Gabriel and Lucifer, their involvements and how Gabriel rose up and his and Lucifer's standoff in the end. It really showed just how emotionally fucked up Heaven's angels really are, and how they really are more fucked up and dysfunctional than the Winchesters. Richard and Marksha blew their performances out of the park, they were extraordinarily perfect onscreen together, showing that brotherly love but at the same time independence of them and how sad they were. They just ripped out my heart, stomped on it and just broke it into a thousand pieces. ;___; It was a fantastic scene between them, but I'm torn because Lucifer killed Gabriel and I just can't believe they did that. I just, I can't. That's not supposed to happen. SORRY KRIPKE YOUR CANON IS INVALID TO MINE LALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU! *plugs ears* But it makes for great emotional drama between the archangels, and the angels in general because despite everything they're all still siblings, still family. It's just, whyyyyyyy?!? I did enjoy this episode even though I had issues with parts of it. This is why my emotions are a wreck right now, I am so conflicted! DAMN YOU SHOW! DAMN YOU KRIPKE!


In case anyone else hasn't heard or gone to it, here's a SPN 5x19 FIX-IT MEME! for those that reject certain parts of canon and live in your own fantastical head!canon, like I do.
 
 
Current Mood: thoughtfulthoughtful
Current Music: Bear McCreary - Kat's Sacrifice
 
 
 
dauntperplexitydauntperplexity on April 25th, 2010 08:54 pm (UTC)
THEORY: Tory!Kali captured some of Gabriel's blood so he's thereby forever bound to her

YES!!! I completely believe in this theory. I mean, why would she say that line unless it meant something, right? You are definitely not reaching...

I also would've loved to see some Cas and Gabriel bonding time. Aw man... sad monkeys.
Renée: BSG. ALL ALONG THE WATCHTOWER.rogueslayer452 on April 25th, 2010 09:06 pm (UTC)
Unless of course that was a red-herring, as if it's the show's way of saying "here we give you one thing, but that doesn't mean anything sorry!" which I wouldn't put it passed them to do that. I don't know, I just want that to be a possibility, and he'll kind of pop up again like say, the finale, that he's resurrected by either Kali or God or whomever. Because I just have to think about that significance, I just have to. I am still in denial Kripke! Still! *hugs Gabriel*

I also would've loved to see some Cas and Gabriel bonding time. Aw man... sad monkeys.

I know, right? There was some great opportunities for angel bonding moments, and for there to be at least another angel fighting for humanity which besides Castiel, there is none that we know of (well, Joshua, but he's in Heaven tending the Garden so, heh). I mean, there was hardly anything in "Changing Channels" and I would have liked to see something between them. A moment, something. Just, ugh. SHOW.
(no subject) - goldenusagi on April 26th, 2010 01:39 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - rogueslayer452 on April 26th, 2010 09:20 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - goldenusagi on April 27th, 2010 04:03 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - rogueslayer452 on April 27th, 2010 06:14 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - goldenusagi on April 27th, 2010 06:41 am (UTC) (Expand)
Kevin Jonesmulder200 on April 25th, 2010 09:22 pm (UTC)
I have to admit that I thought the Gods and Angels were much more interesting than Sam and Dean and I am sad that it wasn't given enough time to really develop. Horrible execution.

Gabriel's Death=Dramatic but pointless death scene. Blah!

And I ranted about this in my personal journal but it BOTHERS ME GREATLY! 19 eps. into your season and you finally have your main characters come up with a plan to trap your season's villain not only makes them look really stupid IMO but also screams sloppy writing. Especially this late in the game.

I have a very disturbing feeling on how this season will end and if certain character bites it, fuck it! I am done SPN! The only thing SPN I will deal with is the fanfic because at least the characters make more sense than they do in the show.
Renée: Dean/Castiel. Bittersweet.rogueslayer452 on April 25th, 2010 10:52 pm (UTC)
I think the angels and gods thing could have been dealt with better, but it was just a messy plot for the beginning of the episode just to involve the boys somehow, I think. It really should have just been about Gabriel and Lucifer the entire time. Idk

I don't think it was quite as pointless, it really was very effective. I just wished we had time to develop their characters more (as in more Lucifer and Gabriel in episodes before this one). I mean I would still have cried heavily if this still occurred, but it wouldn't feel incomplete and something of a waste of amazing characters that would have been amazing additions, if only for recurring roles. It shouldn't always be about the brothers and them alone, you know. They need FRIENDS and ALLIES. Gabriel could have been that for them, just jfc show. You need to stop killing awesome characters. :(

It really is kind of sloppy how they've been handling the apocalypse this season. I think I had high expectations, though. Which I shouldn't because while I do love the show its flaws are in the writing and direction sometimes, and that's what bugs the most. :/

The more I think about it, I'm right there with you. I probably won't be watching or at least not as obsessively as I have been if they fuck shit up. I WANT TO BE REASSURED SHOW! D:
Tracy: Cas BAMF Entrancealexwhitman25 on April 25th, 2010 09:44 pm (UTC)
You know most of my thoughts on the episode and you hit all of the points that seriously bugged for me.

The constant sacrificing of other characters in the name of the Winchesters is actually starting to color the way I look at them. I mean they sit back without any real fear of dying, while everyone arounds them sacrifices themselves over and over to try to help. It's really starting to bug.

I still do not get why Gabriel had to try to fight Lucifer when he knew a bigger and more likely to succeed plan. He could have done his trickery and escaped and then went on to help the boys get the rest of the rings. That is why his death irks me so much. If they still had no clue what to do, Gabriel trying to fight Lucifer at this point and dying doing so would have sucked but made sense and have been fitting. Instead, it makes it look like they killed him off for the drama of killing him off and in a nonsensical way, especially considering how smart and manipulative this character has shown himself to be.

I know Kripke likes to rip off Gaiman, but man this was like an elementary school version of American Gods. There was no bite or depth to them.

The rings...I'm not even going to get going on that again.

I heard that Kripke didn't even fully write the final episode. That he wrote a portion of it and some other new guy wrote the rest. This really has me wondering how much involvement Kripke even has had in the way this season ends.
Renée: Dean/Castiel. Between us.rogueslayer452 on April 25th, 2010 11:08 pm (UTC)
The constant sacrificing of other characters in the name of the Winchesters is actually starting to color the way I look at them. I mean they sit back without any real fear of dying, while everyone arounds them sacrifices themselves over and over to try to help. It's really starting to bug.

Exactly. Especially in the beginning of this episode they were all, "we'll eventually find Cas" UM DUDES YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO HIM HE MIGHT BE DEAD FOR ALL YOU KNOW (we know he's not really but they don't know that) YOU SHOULD BE MORE CONCERNED ABOUT YOUR FRIEND WHO RISKED EVERYTHING RATHER THAN THINKING "OH HAY LUXURY HOTEL VACATION!" This is one of my major gripes about the show, like sometimes when something big happens in an episode they hardly touch on it seriously in the next, at least not in a consistent wave of continuity of it. It's definitely hugely part of the writing honestly, like some of the writers get it, get the character developments with the story, while others do not.

We know that they should be taking this seriously, but from the way the episodes are written and spread it this season it makes it appear like they care sometimes, but not all the time. Or they mention it but don't do anything about it. Then we have characters who sacrifice everything and the brothers just don't do anything, and that rubs me the wrong way. I wouldn't have minded it if it happened a few times, but it happens every single time and that's starting to really irritate me.

Instead, it makes it look like they killed him off for the drama of killing him off and in a nonsensical way, especially considering how smart and manipulative this character has shown himself to be.

SERIOUSLY! I mean, perhaps Gabriel knew that he wasn't going to survive this and he just needed this last moment to just talk with his brother, but come on. Gabriel was definitely a mastermind in all of his trickery, he could have figured out some other alternative to both play Lucifer and save the boys along with himself, thus having another ally on Team Free Will. But maybe he knew that Lucifer was smarter? That his big brother would see right through Gabriel's facade? I don't know.

I mean, I loved their scene together. I really did, so emotional and effective and perfect and brilliant. But Gabriel being offed like that was so unexpected and shocking, I still don't know how to properly react.

Kripke stepping down from the helm of the show has me nervous, I don't even want to think about fates of other characters or the direction of the show since I don't want to be sourly disappointed. (I know no spoilers, just feeling apprehensive with everything that's been right now.....)
(no subject) - alexwhitman25 on April 26th, 2010 02:36 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - rogueslayer452 on April 26th, 2010 09:16 am (UTC) (Expand)
(Deleted comment)
Renée: Castiel. Whumped :(rogueslayer452 on April 25th, 2010 11:13 pm (UTC)
I know. :( His reveal as being Gabriel was like, the best thing ever, and I was really loving the possible potential directions they could have given his character on the show. Like, having him join Sam and Dean and Castiel in this fight, kind of messing with them playfully, stepping up without getting himself killed in the process. All potentially awesome ideas for a recurring character. He was really becoming a fast fan favorite for everyone, I think. I don't think anyone was happy about what happened to him in this episode. ;__;

But it seems like the show doesn't want the Winchesters to have allies or friends, that everyone is sacrificing themselves for them, which is starting to piss me off because that is not how this shit is done.
lloyd, i'm ready to be heartbroken: when you're all out of hopesapphirestar_ on April 25th, 2010 11:44 pm (UTC)
I FULLY SUPPORT YOUR KALI & GABRIEL'S BLOOD THEORY. I SUPPORT THE GABRIEL IN THE DVD THEORY EVEN MORE, BECAUSE WHAT COULD BE MORE FITTING, EH?

EVEN WHEN HE'S STUCK INSIDE THE DVD, WAITING FOR SAM SOMEONE TO CATCH A CLUE AND RELEASE HIM ALREADY, HE GETS TO HAVE SOME KINKY FUN WITH A HOT WOMAN. SOUNDS LIKE HIM, YES NO YES? :D :D :D

OR MAYBE GABRIEL REALLY IS LOKI, LIKE, BEING BOTH, AND KILLING GABRIEL DIDN'T ACTUALLY KILL LOKI AND SHIT HAPPENS AND GABRIEL COMES BACK AND SEES SAM WATCHING CASA EROTICA BECAUSE SAM CAN'T STAND NOT TO HAVE GABRIEL IN HIS LIFE ANYMORE, THE POOR SOD. AND THEN THERE IS SEX.

EITHER THAT, OR SAM FINDS GOD (BECAUSE HE TOTES TOOK THE AMULET AFTER DEAN THREW IT AWAY) AND BITCHFACES AT HIM/HER/IT UNTIL GOD CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE AND BRINGS GABRIEL BACK. AND THEN THEY ALL LIVE HAPPILY EVER AFTER, AND DEAN GIVES GOD SOME GOOD TIPS ON HOW TO RESIST THE EPIC BITCHFACES OF SAM.

but just oasljf;aljkfdls IT'S NOT THE SAME WITHOUT OUR BB GABRIEL. NOT THE SAME AT ALL. D: D: D: i mean, you could always look forward to those lulzy episodes with the trickster/gabriel, and now you can't. what is this fuckery. D:
Renée: Castiel. Searching for answers.rogueslayer452 on April 26th, 2010 01:45 am (UTC)
EVEN WHEN HE'S STUCK INSIDE THE DVD, WAITING FOR SAM SOMEONE TO CATCH A CLUE AND RELEASE HIM ALREADY, HE GETS TO HAVE SOME KINKY FUN WITH A HOT WOMAN. SOUNDS LIKE HIM, YES NO YES? :D :D :D

OMGYES, THAT TOTES DOES SOUND LIKE SOMETHING GABRIEL WOULD DO! ALSO IT WOULD EXPLAIN HOW HE MANAGED TO CREATE THAT DVD BECAUSE HE DIDN'T GET A CHANCE TO MAKE THAT MESSAGE IN SUCH A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME BETWEEN WHEN DEAN TALKED TO HIM IN THE IMPALA AND WHEN LUCIFER ARRIVED - UNLESS THERE'S LIKE SOME WACKY TIME-TRAVELING MECHANISM HE USED WITH HIS ~ARCHANGEL SKILLS~ BUT LET'S JUST GO WITH HIM BEING STUCK IN THE DVD. BECAUSE I CAN SO TOTALLY SEE HIM DOING THAT. AND BOTH THOSE GABRIELS WE SAW WITH LUCIFER WERE DECOYS. *NODS* DEF A LOGICAL AND REASONABLE POSSIBILITY. ;D

OR MAYBE GABRIEL REALLY IS LOKI, LIKE, BEING BOTH, AND KILLING GABRIEL DIDN'T ACTUALLY KILL LOKI AND SHIT HAPPENS AND GABRIEL COMES BACK AND SEES SAM WATCHING CASA EROTICA BECAUSE SAM CAN'T STAND NOT TO HAVE GABRIEL IN HIS LIFE ANYMORE, THE POOR SOD. AND THEN THERE IS SEX.

I APPROVE OF THIS ALSO. AS WELL AS YOUR IDEA ABOUT SAM FINDING GOD AND FUCKING DEMANDING GABRIEL BE RETURNED TO HIM BACK TO THEM ALL IN ONE PIECE. :D DAMN, WE SHOULD BE WRITERS ON THE SHOW SINCE THEY SEEM TO NOT UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPT OF ~GETTING IT RIGHT~ WITH THESE THINGS. HEHEHE.

but just oasljf;aljkfdls IT'S NOT THE SAME WITHOUT OUR BB GABRIEL. NOT THE SAME AT ALL. D: D: D: i mean, you could always look forward to those lulzy episodes with the trickster/gabriel, and now you can't. what is this fuckery. D:

INORITE? JFC SHOW. D: I think it's always been better knowing that Trickster/Gabriel was out there somewhere, creating hilarious havoc and crazy antics and whenever there's crazy shit going down with the Winchesters we can always assume that Gabriel had something to do with it. And now we won't have that anymore! Not unless they completely retcon the ending and have him magically reappear in some form, which I would be happy with esp if it's to help the boys and all but, as it stands I don't think it'll be happening. :((((

THIS IS FUCKED UP FUCKERY OF THE UTMOST FUCKERIEST. WHAT IS THIS I CAN'T EVEN.
(no subject) - sapphirestar_ on April 26th, 2010 06:47 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - rogueslayer452 on April 26th, 2010 07:32 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - sapphirestar_ on April 26th, 2010 09:24 am (UTC) (Expand)
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(no subject) - sapphirestar_ on April 26th, 2010 10:55 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - rogueslayer452 on April 27th, 2010 05:51 am (UTC) (Expand)
goldenusagigoldenusagi on April 26th, 2010 01:31 am (UTC)
recurring and secondary characters which are brought back are killed off, and this gag seems to be getting old and tired and, quite frankly, kind of irritating

This is annoying. I understand that not every character is going to get a shiny, happy walk into the sunset at the end. But when you literally kill off everyone, it just becomes irritating and predictable. Sort of like how Joss Whedon has no happy couples. WE GET IT ALREADY. If two characters so much as kiss, one of them will end up dead. But we can see it coming now, and if we can see it coming, it's sort of bad storytelling. Not to mention turning into a one trick pony. SPN's penchant for killing off characters is getting to that level. Seriously, all they need to do is kill off Bobby and Cas, and there will be no characters except the Winchesters left alive, period. (Because you know the rest of the Horsemen will get it, and maybe another archangel or two.)

I never was this wrecked after a character death on this show before

This is the first one I was really upset about. But this is also the first one that I just can't seem to make sense of. (Also, I guess I'm a little miffed at how easy it was to kill an archangel. Humans dying while fighting the supernatural is expected, but...I don't know, it just bugs me.)

I did love Gabriel in all his scenes this ep. It almost played out like a fanfic. He shows up, saves the boys, they call him on what he said about playing their roles, he fesses up that he kind of likes the Earth, etc. The most adorable and fun moment was Gabriel hiding in the backseat of the Impala, because it was just such a Gabriel thing to do. But where it went weird for me was Dean and Gabriel's talk. Dean basically tells him to go kill his brother. (Hello, Dean, does that sound familiar much?) And then Gabriel just...does. And hey, maybe Gabriel thought he could do it, that it wouldn't be a suicide mission. But I just don't get how he turned from not wanting to watch his brothers kill each other, to wanting to kill his brother himself. I know he chose the side of the Earth, but if he knew a backup plan, why not try that first? It just doesn't make sense to me from a character motivation POV or a strategic POV.

Also, I'm going to be majorly annoyed if the "only an angel can kill an angel" thing is retconned or never explained. We talked about this before, but I liked the idea that angels aren't of earth, and therefore can only be killed by each other. BUT if all that was needed to kill an angel is an angel's sword (or an archangel's sword), why did Gabriel have to do it? At this point, it seems like maybe all you need to kill an angel is a sword, whether you're an angel or not. "That thing can kill me." BUT if humans can kill angels with those swords, why didn't they try that in 5.10 instead of using the Colt? The first time we see a human use an angel sword is 5.13, and then of course we get the big Zachariah kill in 5.18. They just seem to be jumping all over the place with this.

ETA: Also, sometimes I just get the image of the writers sitting around asking who can they kill next. Or killing off people because they're fan favorites. I'm probably reading too much into this. But it should be about the story and what the characters would do, not what you're going to MAKE the characters do, if that makes any sense at all. I mean, I haven't been around in fandom that long, but I heard that there were plans to make Jo or Anna Dean's love interest, but there was such a violent reaction that they changed their minds. Not that I particularly want Dean with either of them as a love interest (though it could have worked with Jo, IMO, if presented a bit differently), but does it seem odd that storylines change because of fans? Obviously they want people to keep watching, but...IDK. But then there's Cas, who proved to be popular, so they kept him on. So now I'm like, 'Cas is so popular, surely they wouldn't kill him,' and 'Wait, Cas is a fan favorite, they're gonna kill him!'

Edited at 2010-04-26 01:48 am (UTC)
Renée: Castiel/Lucifer. Angels of the Lord.rogueslayer452 on April 26th, 2010 06:58 am (UTC)
But we can see it coming now, and if we can see it coming, it's sort of bad storytelling. Not to mention turning into a one trick pony. SPN's penchant for killing off characters is getting to that level.

Yeah, it's becoming a common trope in the show and part of what makes me irritated is that it makes it seem like it's all centering around the Winchesters. Which, okay, it is because the show does focus on their story, however that does not mean they should off anyone that isn't a Winchester, which that is precisely what it's been feeling like lately. I guess it took Gabriel's death for me to acknowledge that fully that oh shit, even some of our newly beloved characters are getting caught in the crossfire now. What does this mean?! D: I mean I get it, the show is about the Winchesters, but that doesn't mean they can't have allies and friends, you know? Hell, certain characters don't necessarily have to be around 24/7, they can just pop in every now and again when it's relevant, you know?

Also, I guess I'm a little miffed at how easy it was to kill an archangel. Humans dying while fighting the supernatural is expected, but...I don't know, it just bugs me

Well, considering it was two archangels facing off I can see how it would seem easier than most, but yeah. I get what you mean. I also expected there to be an all-out brawl I suppose, and not just a surprise kind of thing, but I guess that was part of the emotional impact of their confrontation as brothers. But yeah, idk. I think I'm getting myself ahead where I want an all out angel fight, bloody and really fucking fierce. I don't know if that'll ever happen on the show, though.

The most adorable and fun moment was Gabriel hiding in the backseat of the Impala, because it was just such a Gabriel thing to do.

lol, it really was very adorable. Oh, Gabriel. <3



I think another adorable moment was his conversation with the boys in their motel room, with their little bantering moment with them threatening each other. It was done in a playful manner and I laughed out loud. See, this is the kind of stuff that would continue on between them had that ending not happen. THEY ARE TOO CUTE WITH EACH OTHER, I CAN'T EVEN. <333 It would just be that, playful banter with helping each other out. I can just imagine Gabriel taunting them, and Castiel, but being there when needed because he choose humanity's side and all that.
(no subject) - goldenusagi on April 27th, 2010 07:25 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - rogueslayer452 on April 27th, 2010 11:07 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - goldenusagi on April 28th, 2010 09:07 am (UTC) (Expand)
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(no subject) - goldenusagi on April 27th, 2010 07:41 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - rogueslayer452 on April 27th, 2010 09:16 am (UTC) (Expand)
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(no subject) - cheerful_earl on April 27th, 2010 08:15 am (UTC) (Expand)
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(no subject) - cheerful_earl on April 28th, 2010 06:11 pm (UTC) (Expand)
cheerful_earl: Team Free Willcheerful_earl on April 26th, 2010 03:00 am (UTC)
Gabriel proved himself worthy of fighting the good fight in this war. He is officially an honorary member of Team Free Will and will always be remembered for his sacrifices. He won us over in the end, from his reveal to his complete turnaround and alliance with the Winchesters. His heroic action for standing up and stepping it up was of such bravery and courageousness. Gabriel, we love you and you will always be remembered for all that you did, how you stood up and just went all out. ♥

AMEN! *claps* I want to photoshop him into my Team Free Will icon. <333

I will never get over the amazingness of Richard and Marksha in this episode. Especially since these characters have never had a scene together, but both actors managed to put so much depth into their interaction. I believed them as brothers completely. For them to be able to sell that death scene as the end to a real past even though we've never seen one amazes me.

I didn't notice it until watching your gifs of that scene five thousand times but I love Lucifer's eyes as he turns around to stab Gabriel. They widen, and he looks surprised even though he *knows* Gabriel is there. It's like he can't really believe his little brother is trying to kill him. And their hands! Both of them have their hands held so tightly on the other (except of course the one holding the knife *sobs*).

Can someone please make a show with Richard, Marksha, and Misha? I don't even care what it's about, but I them all together on my TV.

But yeah, you'd think that a building with that many powerful deities they would have been able to stop or weaken Lucifer at some point, but no. Instead they were killed instantly. It just didn't make sense and I'm still not pleased with that turn out.

Me neither. I can understand some of them; unworshipped gods lose power, according to "A Very Supernatural Christmas." But come on! Lucifer just ripped through them. I'm glad Kali lived, and that she actually got to fight some, but it seems weird that she wasn't more powerful. IDK. (And like you, I prefer Rekha Sharma as Kali to her as Tory. I can't stand Tory, LOL, even though every time I see Rekha Sharma you wouldn't know it. I squeal, "Tory!" like she was my favorite.)

I have said that I'm feeling apprehensive and worried only because I know they're trying to wrap things up this season, but knowing this show there might be some more hidden surprises for us. I just hope it all makes sense because right now I'm not as strongly convinced with how the story is going like how it was in season four. Just saying.

Me too. I would love to be pleasantly surprised with the wrap up of this plot and the introduction of whatever next season will be. I try to trust the show (they don't let me down that often), but I'm apprehensive.
Renée: SPN. TEAM FREE WILL FUCK YEAH!rogueslayer452 on April 26th, 2010 03:42 am (UTC)
Hee! I need to get myself some Gabriel icons, asap. Why I haven't already, idek.

I believed them as brothers completely. For them to be able to sell that death scene as the end to a real past even though we've never seen one amazes me.

I found that incredibly amazing as well, just from the fact this was the first (and apparently last) scene together. There was immense chemistry between them, and if I thought the apprehensive encounter between Castiel and Lucifer was amazing, you can just tell these two were sizzling with this bonding moment. They truly did sell it, from beginning to the end, and I think that's a phenomenal thing to have on a show with two actors that haven't shared a scene together before. I was very impressed with how it was done, it was so heartfelt and yes, you can tell that there was history between them. A brotherly bond, and just, omg I love that scene even though I hate it. Does that make sense? lol

I love Lucifer's eyes as he turns around to stab Gabriel. They widen, and he looks surprised even though he *knows* Gabriel is there. It's like he can't really believe his little brother is trying to kill him. And their hands! Both of them have their hands held so tightly on the other

I noticed that too the second time around and that just made the dramatic moment even more effective because, again, they just sold it right there. From them clutching hands to the sad expressions on their faces, there's love and sadness and possibly regret in their eyes because Gabriel didn't want to face his brother, and Lucifer apparently didn't want to either, because they're brothers and just. I love it, so fucking much. The chemistry, the history, even without seeing anything prior it's all there and the emotion is just overwhelming. OMGLOVE.

What could have made the scene much better, in my opinion, was if Lucifer has kissed Gabriel on the forehead. Like a gesture of brotherly love in a way, kind of like an apology and regret. I just think that would have added a lot more to their scene and definitely more sympathy towards Lucifer, not that we didn't already have that with him crying over his brother. ;___; I JUST LOVE THESE ANGELS SO MUCH ASDJFASL;KJDF. THEY BREAK MY HEART.

Can someone please make a show with Richard, Marksha, and Misha? I don't even care what it's about, but I them all together on my TV.

THIS X INFINITY! :D :D :D :D

For some reason I can kinda see them co-hosting a talk show together. I don't know why, but from their panels at LA Con and their personalities combined, you know there would be crazy shenanigans happening like, daily. And then they could get Jensen and Jared to appear once in a while and pull some pranks on them or something. ;)

And like you, I prefer Rekha Sharma as Kali to her as Tory. I can't stand Tory, LOL, even though every time I see Rekha Sharma you wouldn't know it. I squeal, "Tory!" like she was my favorite

lol, yeah, I'm the same way. I think it's kind of like the "hey, I know you" reaction I have to anyone that I know from one fandom that appears in another fandom I love. The classic colliding of fandoms, if you will (which works wonderfully in my brain since I love fandom crossovers, so when surprise!Tory appeared on SPN I was like "okay so, Gabriel made out with a Cylon...cool!" XD)

Me too. I would love to be pleasantly surprised with the wrap up of this plot and the introduction of whatever next season will be. I try to trust the show (they don't let me down that often), but I'm apprehensive.

Yeah. The thing is, I wasn't as apprehensive about the show before. Like, I was interested in how they were to handle certain outcomes, but I wasn't this nervous about how they would wrap things up. I think it's because my investment in the show has risen greatly since S4 that my expectations might be risen just a tad too high right now, since I kinda think on a grander scale esp when there's an apocalyptic arc happening. So, idk. We'll see. *crosses fingers*
(no subject) - cheerful_earl on April 27th, 2010 06:38 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - rogueslayer452 on April 27th, 2010 08:48 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - cheerful_earl on April 28th, 2010 06:14 pm (UTC) (Expand)
just a small town girl: [supernatural] team free willcarameltrap on April 26th, 2010 10:16 am (UTC)
Hi. Um, random person who happen by your journal but I want to tell you that I really enjoy reading your SPN meta/review because you balance both squee and insightful thoughts really well which makes it pleasurable to read. If you don't mind, I'm adding you.

I get why Gabriel had to die but it still struck me as pointless. It would have been nice if he had lived and can help out but perhaps having archangel on the team feels overpowered to the writers? He can do anything with a snap of his fingers. Hence, the writing him out of the show to let the boys handle the apocalypse by themselves. I'm just disappointed that there won't be any Gabriel working with TFW or connecting with Castiel.

I thought the gods gathered in one place had such potential but sadly, Lucifer had to decimated them all before we get more than just bitching at each other.
Renée: SPN. TEAM FREE WILL FUCK YEAH!rogueslayer452 on April 26th, 2010 02:09 pm (UTC)
Awww, thanks. :) And hey, I don't mind random people stopping by at all, the more the merrier esp to share thoughts about similar interests. Friending you back as well, since it seems we have some things in common (aside from SPN you I see you also like Caprica! :D)

It would have been nice if he had lived and can help out but perhaps having archangel on the team feels overpowered to the writers? He can do anything with a snap of his fingers. Hence, the writing him out of the show to let the boys handle the apocalypse by themselves.

I don't think adding an already full-powered archangel would have made a difference though, nor do I think it would have been simply a deux ex machina situation. The Apocalypse cannot simply be averted by the snapping of one's fingers, because otherwise it would have been ceased by now; as they've already said that the ones that started the Apocalypse must stop it, that being Dean Winchester's special destiny (along with Sam because technically they both started it). I just think the Winchesters having another ally on their side would have been nice since they literally have nobody else, besides Castiel that is. And with everything that's been going down the Winchesters need all the help they can get, either human or an angel/archangel. Which I think is the main gripe I have for them killing off such characters that can provide that much support and help for the cause. There was so much Gabriel had to contribute, and it really is a shame that we won't see more of how that would have happened.

I thought the gods gathered in one place had such potential but sadly, Lucifer had to decimated them all before we get more than just bitching at each other.

Yeah. I felt the entire gods plot was mostly for episode filler before we got into the grander stuff, aka the Lucifer versus Gabriel towards the end. Not that I didn't enjoy the hilarious stuff that happened in between but, when you look at the episode overall it really was kind of clunky and didn't really get handled well, imo.
blackcat333_99blackcat333_99 on April 27th, 2010 12:58 am (UTC)
++ I love that, despite it all, Gabriel got the last word and the last laugh. That DVD insert was just awesome, and I love Sam and Dean's expressions. Casa Erotica will never be the same for them. Well, I think Dean might return to the DVD because, well, he's Dean.... ;)

If I may say... One thing that Gabriel's death did serve was to seperate his duel identities that he had going. The Archangel Gabriel died, slaine by his brother. But The Trickster lives on, immortalized by his final trick on the Prince of Lies. And whether Gabriel is deemed worthy of ressurection by God the same way Castiel was, because he chose the right team, or whether he stays dead... his legacy will still go on, because he provided the key to hoist his arrogant brother on his own petard. To me he'll aways be The Trickster, because of his legacy and the identity he chose for himself. And in true Trickster fashion, death doesn't end the game.

I'll miss that glorious bastard. He could have been a great ally for the boys, but on the other hand he could have been too convenient a deux ex machina for solutions to future cases were he to survive. I dunno. But again, no character is going to get a better legacy... at the end of the day mankind will owe it's chance to survive the angels' machinations because of the opposing machinations of a fallen god, so to speak.
Renée: Castiel. Guardian angel.rogueslayer452 on April 27th, 2010 09:37 am (UTC)
The Archangel Gabriel died, slain by his brother. But The Trickster lives on, immortalized by his final trick on the Prince of Lies. And whether Gabriel is deemed worthy of resurrection by God the same way Castiel was, because he chose the right team, or whether he stays dead... his legacy will still go on

This, absolutely. He was such a legendary character, whether in his Trickster persona or as Gabriel. And although I'm still in mourning because hi, I loved him sfm, I loved how in the end it was a combination of both those identities to make his stand. That's just how awesome the Gabester was, and you're right. The first lesson is, and always be, the legend doesn't end with death. It only continues, and I kinda loved that he was able to do so by giving the boys his message post his death. True to his own character, really. <3

I don't think Gabriel joining the Winchester's side would have been too much of a deux ex machina device, since I still think them having at least an alliance with someone else, whether human or archangel, would give them more chances at having hope in winning without too much intervening from the other, you know?
catnthecradlecatnthecradle on April 27th, 2010 08:33 am (UTC)
I disagree totally about Gabriel's death, I think it was COMPLETELY necessary.

This is a story about two humans stopping/diffusing/preventing the apocalypse. If Gabriel was still alive during the final episodes the show wouldn't be able to justify NOT having him take the lead. I mean if you're going up against Lucifer and you had an archangel on your side you'd be a fool not to use him.

The show has made a point of diminishing Castiel's power over the season, so that it would make sense for him to take a backseat to the boys, so it makes perfect sense to kill off Gabriel.

Not that I'm not going to miss him, but that's what fanfic is for. LOL
Renée: Castiel. Show some respect.rogueslayer452 on April 27th, 2010 08:57 am (UTC)
True, the story and message of the show is and always has been about the resilience and strength of humanity defeating the supernatural through extraordinary means and that hasn't changed, however that doesn't mean they shouldn't have more allies on their side, whether supernatural or human. I felt like killing off Gabriel, while I understand the emotional impact it left being necessary, especially when dealing with the angel familial issues which ties into the mythology and parallels of the Winchesters, was a complete waste of a great opportunity of having a character who would be helpful on their side.

Because it wouldn't be like having an archangel would lessen the message about having humanity winning this thing themselves, since it's obvious they've mentioned time and again it has to be them to stop it. Gabriel would be an asset, but not take full lead of the mission.

The show has made a point of diminishing Castiel's power over the season

Actually, from my understanding, Castiel's powers have only been weakened from the beginning of the season due to being cut off from Heaven, not diminished over the course of the season. He's still a powerful angel helping out the Winchesters just with some limitations. So I don't see how the possibility of allowing Gabriel help them out is any different than Castiel being on their side doing the same thing.
krisreinkekrisreinke on April 27th, 2010 10:35 pm (UTC)
What if Lucifer only killed the archangel?
NO. That's my serious questions.

Gabriel was created as an archangel - but over time he has also become a pagan dieity - the 'trickster'. Angel-power( grace) comes from heaven - but there is also some power behind the other 'gods'.

Now we know from cannon that that bright white light is the *grace* factor. It goes, and the angel is dead. It comes back, and Anna becomes an angel again. I do believe that what we see in Gabriel's second death is departing grace. (I think Lucifer would know if it was 'fake grace'. Lucy is, after all, a real angel.)

BUT! Using logic, if Gabe is also the trickster than whatever mojo-source powered the other gods should power him too. (Let's guess that is is 'belief' - given Kali's speach and her comparitive power. HER worshipers are still kick-ass and so is she.) Formal prayer to the trickster gods may be on the decline, but there are SOME, plus I think there are enough people who believe in irony/karma/luck to give Loki/Coyote/Spider at least a little reserve battery.

SO! Unlike the 'regular' angels where 'goodbye grace' = dead angel, Gabe still has some ability to hang around. (Think of it as life support. In the DVD, or in the belief-world of Casa Erotica. Hey, a lot of people watch those and... while watching... there is that 'suspension of disbelief'.)

Conclusion? I think there is a good chance that Gabe will come back. Maybe as an angel ( if GodDaddy give him the holy jump-start) but if I'm lucky maybe as JUST the trickster. A free agent. (

And wouldn't that be fun!?)
Renée: Gabriel. BB COME BACK!rogueslayer452 on April 28th, 2010 12:41 am (UTC)
Re: What if Lucifer only killed the archangel?
I've always wondered how Gabriel actually managed to hack into having not just Trickster powers but having such a guise to his "witness protection" after leaving Heaven. He must've been known as different things overtime, as Kali and the other gods referred to him as Loki. So this makes me curious as to how Gabriel managed to hide under the radar for so long, if it was something he asked for or he used his archangel powers or something like along those lines. Which that, too, make work into the whole separation between himself as the archangel and the other guises he's taken hold of, although I have a pained feeling that it was combination of both in the episode.

But yes, I would love to see this all retconned, as him returning from being resurrected like God had done so with Castiel or perhaps just returning back as a Trickster/regular guy to live on Earth after what he sacrificed for. There's always hopeful wishing! Anything is possible in SPN. ;)
su_darklilysu_darklily on April 30th, 2010 12:12 pm (UTC)
OMFG
O my god that is absolutely brilliant! Why o why didn't they go with that?

I would have totally forgiven them a zillion points just on that title alone. What a waste!

Thanks for the link to the fix-it meme, sounds fabulous!

^^ My own pet theory is that a Trickster is always a Trickster a.k.a. why have only one trick sword? lol.

And speaking of BSG - don't know about you but me, I've always been secretly holding out for the episode where Starbuck turns up as Dean's 'female' persona - gender swap/alternative dimension/body swap - take your pick. Can't u just see how badass Kara would be as Dean?

Renée: Cylons. By your command!rogueslayer452 on May 2nd, 2010 03:47 am (UTC)
Re: OMFG
They really should have thought about the reactions post-episode when labeling the episode. Like yes, "Hammer of the Gods" is all smart and shit, but damn if you'd known the kind of reaction fans would have when YOU KILL OFF A QUICKLY BELOVED CHARACTER, then yeah, stick with the OMFG. More appropriate.

I still wouldn't have forgiven them, though. lol

My own pet theory is that a Trickster is always a Trickster a.k.a. why have only one trick sword? lol.

It makes me wonder how many decoys can a Trickster have. I can totally buy the fact that he used his Trickster powers to create different versions of himself, even one that can be mistaken as being really him, while he's all chilling inside the DVD or whatever giving the boys advice. *still living in denial*

And speaking of BSG - don't know about you but me, I've always been secretly holding out for the episode where Starbuck turns up as Dean's 'female' persona - gender swap/alternative dimension/body swap - take your pick. Can't u just see how badass Kara would be as Dean?

LOL! THAT WOULD BE KINDA HILARIOUS! XD Of course, I've always believed that Kara was the female version of Dean (or that Dean is the male version of Kara) because it's absolutely true. Their personalities are just one in the same. IT'S TIME FOR CROSSOVER/FUSION TIME! ;D
Re: OMFG - su_darklily on May 2nd, 2010 08:24 am (UTC) (Expand)