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11 May 2010 @ 06:45 am
Just passing the time.  
I found this SPN survey while cruising around Tumblr (another addiction pastime I've discovered) and thought it looked pretty interesting. It's also appropriate because it seems to have been created rather recently, so yay. This is also a distraction from any kind of spoilers I've seen floating around about the finale itself, which I don't wanna know or see until it airs Thursday evening, thank you very much.

01. Favourite/least favourite character(s):
Favorite characters are Castiel (obviously) and Dean Winchester, always and forever. ♥

My least favorite character, and the only character on the entire show that I loathe and despise, is Anna Milton. Hated her, just absolutely fucking hated her character.

02. Favourite/least favourite episode(s):
On a fangirlish level I'd say anything dealing with Castiel, particularly "On The Head Of A Pin", "The Rapture" and "Free To Be You and Me", but in all honesty there are handfuls of episodes I loved and adored throughout the seasons that I can't possibly name them all right here. I think the episodes that deal with the mythology of the show are what I am more attracted to, like in season four anything dealing with the angels and their plans for Dean, since they added depth and I think I enjoy that aspect more than anything else. My least favorite episodes are those that are filler and just have nothing to do with the plot whatsoever, or episodes like "I Know What You Did Last Summer" and "Heaven and Hell" that were so atrociously bad bad bad that I practically erased them for canon altogether.

03. Favourite line:
"This isn't funny Dean! The voice says I'm almost out of minutes!" ;p That will never get old.

04. Favourite song(s):
"Carry On My Wayward Son" by Kansas. It's become pretty much the anthem of Supernatural. It's the SPN version of BSG's "All Along The Watchtower", especially the religious undertones. My second favorite would definitely have to be between "Renegade" by Styx and the fantastic rendition of "O Death" by Jen Titus. The latter is what I consider the theme for both seasons four and five, for sure. There's just something so ominous and haunting about the song that really sets the mood, particularly with season four and some episodes we dealt with in season five.

05. Favourite episode title(s):
The majority of the fourth season; they seemed to be going on with a theme of religious/spiritual/biblical titles, plus "Lazarus Rising" and "Lucifer Rising" being the bookends of the season was just an amazing way of handling the season overall.

06. Favourite sex scene(s):
None. The sex scenes are incredibly cheesy and cheapen the show, in my honest opinion.

07. Biggest SPN pet peeve:
Oh boy, here we go.

While I do love this show, it does have its flaws. The main one I find is the writing, which can range from being absolutely fantastic to dreadful and cringe-worthy almost instantly, depending on who the writer is for an episode; it can fluctuate from being fluid to not handling that balance well between arc episodes and filler episodes. The writing and treatment of women on the show, where it's gotten to the point where I just don't want them to write female characters at all anymore because they just fail at it tremendously. The ~epic manpain~ of Sam and Dean was becomes not only redundant but just unresolved and repetitive that I've just become bored and tired with it, hence why I turn to supporting characters. And going with that, the treatment of supporting characters, particularly this season. When you have strong supporting characters with much potential, you should use that instead of just offing them. The show isn't always supposed to be just Sam and Dean you know, they can have allies and friends on their side without having to have their heads cut off. The fact that there's going to be a sixth season pisses me off; I would rather have the show end on the Apocalypse rather than having another season. The fact that Kripke is stepping down and giving the reigns to Sera Gamble of all people, who I honestly don't trust in writing directions or handling of these characters, of being the show's forerunner next season. Definitely not happy about that at all.

It may seem like I'm nitpicking too much, but there will be times when certain decisions or directions the show takes that really makes me go WTF WERE YOU GUYS THINKING?! These have been my major gripes and I don't know if it's just what's been my mood concerning the show recently that brought them out, but yeah. There you go.

Also, the Supernatural fandom. I've met some amazingly fabulous people from this fandom and I love you all don't get me wrong, hell it's because of SPN that I went to my first convention ever, but seriously, the wanking and the batshit crazy drama is just ridiculous and out of control that sometimes I feel ashamed to be associated with it.

08. How did you find out about SPN/why do you like it?
I found out through my sister who started watching it first, I came into the show during its second season. Because this is how things tend to go: my sister starts getting into something, chances are I might end up following suit. It's a thing we have, I don't even know what it is. Though funnily she hates anything dealing with horror or anything scary, so her watching Supernatural at all was kind of bewildering.

What caught my interest to it was mainly the mythology. I know it's common for fans to say it was Jared or Jensen and all of that, but honestly while they're good-looking guys that doesn't really pull me into a show. What initially pulled me into the show was the mythological arc they had, the ghost stories and urban legends and having something in the background that seemed to have a deeper level than what the boys were dealing with weekly. The story about them finding their father, about how there's this grander plan hidden them just hunting, this demon that they're hunting down to avenge their mother's death, and so forth. I liked having that because it's kind of beautiful in a tragic kind of way. Which is why I loved the season two finale because it really tied up everything from the first two seasons.

09. Who would you like to guest star on SPN and why?
Seeing as how they've had more than a dozen BSG alumni on the show already, I'd say Grace Park or Katee Sackhoff. I'd think either one would make great badass female hunters. Michael Trucco or Tahmoh Penikett too. I would also love to see Tricia Helfer reappear on the show again, because I can just imagine her to be one hardcore archangel, for real. Oh, and Bridget Regan and Tabrett Bethel. Basically, getting actresses that can actually portray amazingly awesome kickass characters without even trying. ♥ Because unfortunately, the show doesn't doesn't do such characters justice.

10. Character from another fandom you’d like to see in SPN:
Faith Lehane from Buffy the Vampire Slayer. She'd kick ass, take names and just be all around amazing.

11. Which character do you want to come back?

12. Which character would you like to meet in real life?
Castiel. Since he is that bookworm nerdy little angel, I would love to get into a deep philosophical conversation with him, particularly about theology since I love such topics. I would also offer him cookies!

13. Jared Padalecki has decided not to shave his sideburns or cut his hair for quite some time now, this has become problematic for many fans; explain how you would go about in fixing this.
INTERVENTION AND SCISSOR SNIPPING TIME! I'd pretty much tie him down and just cut it all off, and tell him "honey, you used to be cute, don't ever do this to yourself again or else I'll fucking buzzcut you like Jensen."

14. Who do you want to play God?
Lady Gaga. Or Tricia Helfer. Or Queen Latifah. Or Edward James Olmos.

15. If Supernatural didn’t exist, but Sam and Dean did, which TV show would you want to see them in?
That's easy, Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Be on a show where the women are actually portrayed and treated fairly, and where Dean can get called out on being such a manwhore all the time (I do love Dean dearly, but it's true; and Buffy could smack some sense into him). Also, just for pure shits and giggles, I would want to see their reactions to being in Legend of the Seeker. Can you imagine them fighting with swords instead of guns? Riding on horses instead of the Impala? I think Sam would have a kick out of it, while Dean would be completely confused and frustrated because he would kind of not want to have anything to do with magic and wizardry, and the women that he cannot leer at because they would make him cry and beg for mercy, lol.

16. If you could make a crossroads deal, would you? If yes, what would the deal be for?
I'd say no, because why would I want to suffer eternity in Hell for something like that? Sometimes we have to live with the losses in our lives no matter how horrible they may be, no matter how tempting the thought is to have it instantly at our grasp with just a simple deal, because that's why the Crossroads is there to begin with; it's the weakness of human temptation in taking easy way outs with a temporary solution. However, if it was in time of absolute desperation and there was no other alternative, I definitely would take some consideration into possibly making such a deal, and it was for something not for myself, nothing selfish. I would have to be absolutely positive that my sacrifice for making such a deal would be worth it. But even then that would be on a very, very slim chance on me actually going through with it.

17. Do you prefer the Winchesters suited up or casual?
Mostly casual. I do like guys in suits but, Jared kind of looks awkward in his nowadays and it's not that attractive anymore, sorry to say. I think I prefer them wearing their civilian clothing more often, especially Dean because he has those amazing jackets, his green and blue one respectively.

18. In your opinion, did John Winchester do the right thing in raising Sam and Dean the way he did?
John Winchester was an ordinary man stuck in a horrible extraordinary situation that he didn't know or understand, and he tried the best he could under such circumstances. Was he the perfect father? No, but he was human, and humans make mistakes. John admitted that he wasn't the perfect father, he knows that and he knows that if he could restart everything he would have made better choices for his boys. I think many people hate on John because he's the easiest scapegoat for what happened in their lives, but sometimes it's not that easy and choices and decisions are made that, while not the best and certainly not the only alternative, seemed right at the time of making them. In hindsight John could have made better decisions about protecting his boys and not being so hard on them, pushing one away and treating the other like a soldier, but his obsession over his wife's death and the thing that killed her consumed him so much that he couldn't think of anything else to do.

This is turning into a mini-essay, lol. My point is, John Winchester definitely wasn't the greatest father in the world and made mistakes, but it's understandable given the circumstances and what he thought was for the best. That's the thing about parenting and being torn between one obligation and another.

17. How will you punish Kripke if he royally fucks up the finale to Supernatural?

18. A SPN picture or gif that you like:


There's something I've been wondering, what if Supernatural had a limited order of episodes than the standard 22 like most shows have? Like, say, they had 13 episodes every season? I think that would have better our chances in them actually focusing on the seasonal arc instead of having too many filler episodes and hiatuses interrupting its run, which is one of the problems most of us are having with seeing the consistent run of the season overall. I find limited episodes gives the creators time to really plan more thoroughly to fit in what they need to do for the story to be complete. British serials have this kind of formatting, and Asian dramas usually just have one go and that can range from having only three episodes to like thirty depending on how long they intend to tell the story. Somehow I find that would be a better alternative for some shows that mainly have a heavier mythological arc, like Supernatural does, so they don't have to wonder what they can do with the extra episodes left over. You know?

I'm just thinking aloud, is all.

And random note: I REALLY LOVE MILEY'S NEW SONG. IT IS WAY BETTER THAN CHRISTINA'S SINGLE. WTF IS THIS, I DON'T EVEN. Okay, truthfully? It was the music video that drew me in. Miley has wings. Wings! I was sold then and there, and the video itself is pretty awesome too, ngl. The song is pretty fierce, as well. I have it on repeat like, whoa. New addiction, and I love it. Because, duh, it's pop music. Why wouldn't I love it? ♥
Current Mood: blankblank
Current Music: Miley Cyrus - Can't Be Tamed
Gaby: stealing glances says somethingsquaringkarma on May 11th, 2010 02:23 pm (UTC)
I think I forgot to comment on one of your latest posts, but OMG YES I TOTALLY AGREE ABOUT O DEATH. I EVEN HAD A TWEET ABOUT IT AS I WATCHED :P It was super pretty and an amazing introduction to the character.

Also, Miley's new song is epic.
Renée: Castiel. Searching for answers.rogueslayer452 on May 11th, 2010 08:20 pm (UTC)
Not only was it a fantastic way of introducing Death, but the fact that the promotional trailers for this season have all been about that song. When the S5 promo aired I literally like :O Such a breathtaking song, indeed. I remember when CW.com had it up for grabs I downloaded that mother and had it on repeat for weeks, ngl. *g*

Gabysquaringkarma on May 12th, 2010 03:50 am (UTC)
Ooh I had no idea. I need to get that song!
Renée: BSG. ALL ALONG THE WATCHTOWER.rogueslayer452 on May 12th, 2010 04:00 am (UTC)
"O Death" by Jen Titus

Here you go, bb. :)
Gaby: denisofs and boreanaz at emmys 2009squaringkarma on May 12th, 2010 04:08 am (UTC)
Thanks, bb!
M: Ellen & Jo - Big. Damn. Heroines.mfirefly10 on May 11th, 2010 05:16 pm (UTC)
ITA that this show probably would've done better with a 12 or 13 episode season instead of 22. There have been some great episodes this season but there have also been some forgettable filler episodes and that brings the season down. I also think this entire season should've been one big run up to the final apocalyptic battle...and this should've been the last season.

I wish these writers knew how to write female characters or that they actually used the few awesome female characters they've had. Then again, I can't remember a female character from this show I didn't like so perhaps I'm biased :)
Renée: BSG. Cylon women are ftw.rogueslayer452 on May 11th, 2010 08:37 pm (UTC)
I think with the amount of filler episodes plus the two long hiatuses we've had definitely added to the underwhelming feeling most of fandom has been getting with this season in general. I do think they can have some stand-alone episodes, but it just hasn't been handled or balanced that well that it really makes me think if they would work better with limited episodes rather than the standard 22; that sort of "working under pressure" of getting the story fit into so-and-so episodes without having to ponder about wacky/filler ones on the side.

I wish these writers knew how to write female characters or that they actually used the few awesome female characters they've had.

Agreed. They've wasted such great opportunities with these potential female characters, and either they neglect them, hardly develop their storylines or attempt to but it fails so miserably. It's like show, either get it right or don't do it at all. Seriously. I mean, I've liked the majority of the women on this show, sans the aforementioned one above, they've all had potential with their storylines. But unfortunately for the show, it seems like they can't just write a neutral recurring female character that isn't trying to get into either of the boy's pants, which is kind of insulting when you think about it.

Edited at 2010-05-11 08:39 pm (UTC)
M: BSG women are too good for canonmfirefly10 on May 11th, 2010 11:08 pm (UTC)
it seems like they can't just write a neutral recurring female character that isn't trying to get into either of the boy's pants, which is kind of insulting when you think about it.

This also combines with my least favorite thing about the SPN fandom which is that the majority of the audience only likes the female characters who DON'T have the potential for romantic/sexual relationships with the boys. I think most of the fandom liked Ellen (even though they seemed to hate Jo) and Mary (at least the younger version) but hated characters like Ruby (both of them), Bela, Anna, and Jessica. I can understand not liking these characters based on their storylines or characterizations but not liking them because of their involvement with the brothers? Is kinda odd...
Renée: LotS. Kahlan/Cara.rogueslayer452 on May 12th, 2010 12:36 am (UTC)
Well for me, personally, it's how they handle such characters in that sense, which often isn't that great due to the problem with writing characterization for such female roles, mainly recurring ones. So it's a combination of both the handling of storylines/characterizations and their involvement with the boys regardless.

Although from my understanding most of fandom loves and adores Jessica, I've found no hate towards her at all. Same with Mary, they are perhaps the two female characters that most of fandom agrees on loving the most (and they're both dead, go figure). And actually with S3!Ruby there was no indication that she wanted any kind of romantic involvement with Sam, like there was some subtext but only subtly. Other than that she was pretty neutral for a recurring female character, which I think is kind of a first.

It's kind of sad because on any other show I wouldn't mind that much, but because this is Supernatural and we know firsthand what that means in regards to their writing, that's what gets the defenses up. It's a complicated sort of issue, honestly. I just wished that they either wrote females better (as in get writers that know how to do so) or just didn't write them at all.

Edited at 2010-05-12 12:38 am (UTC)
goldenusagigoldenusagi on May 11th, 2010 05:30 pm (UTC)
The sex scenes are incredibly cheesy and cheapen the show, in my honest opinion.

OMG YES. Really, there's not a sex scene on the show that I don't feel embarrassed watching.

I'm not opposed to shorter seasons. The cable networks do it and do it well. The Sopranos, Dexter, Mad Men... But I think it would be weird if they pushed to get a sixth season instead of ending it now, and then made it shorter. But since when do network executives make sense?
Renée: Castiel. Wings.rogueslayer452 on May 11th, 2010 08:15 pm (UTC)
It's absolutely embarrassing, and such an insult to the actors, imo. Sadly, it's mainly for those watching the show strictly for shallow reasons, like they don't care what's going on or if it's unnecessary to the storytelling as long as Jared or Jensen takes off their shirt. Which yeah, completely insulting to them as actors. :/

Earlier in the season when it was rumored about S6, I imagined that if they couldn't wrap-up the apocalypse arc that they would have to extend it further and having a shortened sixth season would do the trick. But unfortunately that's not going to happen.
Tracy: Casalexwhitman25 on May 11th, 2010 06:53 pm (UTC)
Well the rumor is that Supernatural is going to be a midseason replacement with half the eps (10-11). I don't see why the studio pushed for the show to come back for another season if that is the direction they are heading. A half season of standalones? What's the point? Maybe if they went with a mythology heavy arc that schedule would work, but all we've heard is that there will be no arc focused season next year. They should have just let Kripke end the show this season how he wanted to and been done with it if this really happens. I just don't see Jensen and Jared signing another contract after it's up. I get the feeling they are ready to move on and try other things.

I totally agree with your stance on Papa Winchester. He gets so much hate, but he was a broken man that did the best that he thought he could. He certainly wasn't father of the year, but he wasn't a monster either.

I actually don't think I can hold anything against Kripke in the finale cause I personally am wondering how much input he truly has at this point. I doubt he was able to go with what he really saw as the wrap up to this arc. He has to play into whatever Sera has planned for S6.

Renée: Dean/Castiel. You and I.rogueslayer452 on May 11th, 2010 08:06 pm (UTC)
A half season of standalones? What's the point? Maybe if they went with a mythology heavy arc that schedule would work, but all we've heard is that there will be no arc focused season next year.

Ugh, my point exactly. I had even mentioned from before that if there was to be a sixth season I would rather have it mid-season/shortened and a extension of the apocalyptic arc rather than something else entirely altogether because that would make sense, especially if they couldn't wrap everything up. And judging from how this season went I would prefer they went in that direction of extending a shortened season next year to finish all that up. But no, it's not doing that and I'm feeling underwhelmed by it. :/

I totally agree with your stance on Papa Winchester. He gets so much hate, but he was a broken man that did the best that he thought he could. He certainly wasn't father of the year, but he wasn't a monster either.

You know what's worse? Is the fact that even the show is painting him to be more of an asshole than we've known him, and I think that's unfair. Certainly he wasn't the perfect father or even the most perfect person in the world, but goddamn don't make it seem like the guy didn't care about his family ffs.

I actually don't think I can hold anything against Kripke in the finale cause I personally am wondering how much input he truly has at this point. I doubt he was able to go with what he really saw as the wrap up to this arc. He has to play into whatever Sera has planned for S6.

Eh, true. But even with that Kripke is the creator of the show, he should have some input on his baby is being treated even with this not-series-finale. It's not like he's juggling three shows at once (a la Joss Whedon), and whatever prompted him to step down as the show's forerunner shouldn't change what he has to say to make sure his show doesn't run itself into the ground underneath Gamble's hands. Right? I have to believe in that, at least.
Becky: SPN: I can has a sneaky Cas nao?beckytheelf on May 11th, 2010 07:00 pm (UTC)
Also, I kind of prefer SPN with 22 episodes because although I sometimes complain about some of the filler eps, I really do like them and I think they make for a well balanced season. ALSO, HOW CREEPY IS IT THAT I AM WATCHING THAT EPISODE RN AND SQUEEING OVER THE DEAN/CAS LOVE??? LOOK AT THAT SMIIIILE ON CAS' PRECIOUS LITTLE FACE. *g*
I think it would be awesome if Cas turned out to be God...but then again that makes no sense. So yeah, imma go with Lady Gaga. Steaaaling this meme because it is long and I like to ramble.
Renée: Castiel. Adorkable.rogueslayer452 on May 11th, 2010 07:51 pm (UTC)

I do agree that sometimes filler episodes can balance out a season, though it's more of how they use the placement of those episodes, and it seems like this season hasn't been great in maintaining that balance because with what they're dealing with they should have spent less time with random fillers and more time focusing on the Apocalypse at hand, you know? It's not like I don't like filler episodes at times, some of them can be really fun, but when we're dealing with a mytharc this huge they should be leveled down, or at least have episodes feature both, kinda like how "Changing Channels" turned out to be. idk


I'm not imagining if suddenly Castiel appears to the boys going, "I AM GOD." LOL THAT'D BE WEIRD. XD

Take, and ramble away bb! :D I love memes where I can just let loose and ramble about things at length.
lloyd, i'm ready to be heartbroken: I did everything for you.sapphirestar_ on May 11th, 2010 09:35 pm (UTC)
Because this is how things tend to go: my sister starts getting into something, chances are I might end up following suit. It's a thing we have, I don't even know what it is. Though funnily she hates anything dealing with horror or anything scary, so her watching Supernatural at all was kind of bewildering.

OMG LOL THIS IS EXACTLY ME AND MY SISTER. because she kinda likes horror, and i hate it, but i started watching spn with my sister when it first aired in finland, god knows why - i'm not even sure i knew why i watched it, because i remember how often i used to go all OH GOD SO CREEPY WHY AM I WATCHING THIS SHIT SAVE ME SOMEONE PLSKTHNXBAI - and then it just kinda ... snowballed totally out of control, i guess. but it's always like that. my sister and i have similar tastes in, well, everything, so more often than not we end up fangirling about the same shows (and pairings) too. it's pretty awesome, actually, to have someone at home with whom you can talk about these things. also lol that means i don't have to dl everything myself

and about the limited order of episodes, yeah. i see your point, and i absolutely agree with it. shows with only 13 episodes do tend to be more focused on the actual storyline, and especially asian dramas have the freedom to be as short or as long as they need to be, and that's fantastic. american shows tend to have 20+ episodes (though they've started a bit with 13 episodes per season these last few years) and that means, if they're not well thought out, they tend to go on and on about things that aren't as relevant to the seasonal arc. it's not such a big deal with, say, family dramas as much as it is with shows like supernatural, where the mythology and the story arc and the characters have to work together so they can form a cohesive, brilliant storyline.

on the other hand, yeah, no, i'd absolutely take the 22 episodes of supernatural over 13, because the more spn i get, the happier i am. :D
Renée: Castiel. I'm almost out of minutes!rogueslayer452 on May 12th, 2010 02:46 am (UTC)
OMG WE'RE SO TOTALLY TWINS (you and your sister and me and my sister are like, braintwins maybe? lol idk) It's such an odd thing, because technically we have different tastes but in some weird way we end up liking the same things every now and again. THAT'S JUST HOW WE ROLL, YO.

Yeah, that's the thing because Supernatural started off just being about them hunting monsters and such, but it became something much, much more and I feel like they should focus more on those arcs than having random stand-alones frequently, and by limiting the number of episodes might give them that kind of leverage to do just that. Quality > quantity, and all of that. I mean, think about the shows that have had limited episodes but did just fine in their storytelling. And they can balance out having the funny with the serious stuff, like in such episodes like "Changing Channels", you know? Experiment with something that could possibly be stand-alone-ish but still integrate the main arc in there so it flows consistently with the season.
Filomenaaubade_saudade on May 11th, 2010 09:44 pm (UTC)
i kind of love all the girls, no matter how they are written. i'm all easy like that. people grow on me. (I have this crush on Gen...it would probably fit inside Jared's pants).

you know, i ♥ Sam forever. i seem to love fuck-ups, everyone from Rochester to Oscar Wilde. if they fuck up extraordinarily and hard, i'm there. (which is probably why i love Cas now more that he's a human, there's more potential for fallibility).

Gawd should be played by Stephen Fry. that man is Gawd in my opinion, anyway. him or Gale Harold. ;}

i think John did really, really badly raising his children in that environment. then again, Sam would have done that while Dean wouldn't have-- imo. John and Sam have this terrible conviction about what's right and what's wrong and what kind of sacrifices are okay to make, to the point where they sweep other people along and everybody else breaks against them. everybody but Dean.

Dean kind of grew on me. i started thinking he was this very cartoonish dying breed fuck's sake and thank Gawd for that, and then i realized there was some complexity to him and now i pretty much adore him and can't think of spn without him in it. there's a core of incorruptibility to him, and i don't know if i can say about any other character.

my pet peeve would be that a lot of the time, with supernatural, i feel like i'm watching mediocre filmed fanfic of a good show, and then once in a while i see the actual good show on tv.

Edited at 2010-05-11 09:46 pm (UTC)
Renée: Castiel. Searching for answers.rogueslayer452 on May 12th, 2010 01:13 am (UTC)
I dislike how the show writes and treats the women on their show because it's like they have perfectly good potential storylines, something that can be developed, but the show backtracks and decides no, they're not going to do anything with it and either neglect it or kill them off. Which is horrible handling of any kind of supporting character, regardless of gender honestly. It's what they did with Gabriel this season and I was majorly disappointed and pissed off at the show for doing that. It's like nobody else matters but the Winchesters. Which yes, the show does center around their journey and such but can't there be the development of supporting characters on the sides? That's my major gripe as a whole, the representation and mistreatment of female characters just happens to be part of that.

While both the brothers are fucked up and struggling for redemption in their own right, I think Dean is much more fucked up than Sam is for obvious reasons, particularly when you see his development in season four because that really places many things into perspective, esp his sacrifices and selflessness. Sam is struggling with his inner demons (so to speak) and I like that and think it's an interesting direction for him, but I'm not that fond of his story as it's been presented on the show. Dean and Castiel's stories mesh together because they are very similar and just seeing his character development unravel like that is remarkable. I don't like the notion of him becoming something similar to human but I can see the potential it can bring with exploring his character's journey, granted they don't fuck it up. *shrug* I guess I'm biased in that manner, I suppose.

John wasn't going to win Father of the Decade Trophy for sure, but I can't help but love him despite those flaws. And it is because of those very human flaws and mistakes that, in hindsight, we know were wrong but if it hadn't been for him Sam and Dean wouldn't be the men they are today. Was it right? No. Could there have been other alternatives? Of course, but we all go through our lives thinking about how we could have done one thing instead of something else. That's what John Winchester did, and we know he regretted. But in that kind of situation what do you do?
Filomenaaubade_saudade on May 12th, 2010 01:49 am (UTC)
i totally understand, but there's such a prevalence of hating-disliking female characters in fandom for x,y,z great reason that i've decided to like them all in potential. not the greatest method, i admit, but a reaction to all the logical fictive-girl-hate. (y/y on the Gabriel front- he was one of my very favorite characters in any show, so his end was truly heartbreaking)

I think Dean is much more fucked up than Sam is for obvious reasons

those reasons are probably really obvious, but it's crazy how different people's interpretations are of things, so what might be the height of obvious to you, will swag by unseen by me.

from my pov, Dean's road has been a lot more linear than Sam's. sure, his life is just as fucked-up, but there are external forces in that fuckery. his internal core is unchanged. he's always been driven by the same motivations.

in the case of Sam, well, to me-- he's a bit of a fuck-up. it's external, yes, but also internal. there are layers to his fuckery cake, is what i'm saying. ;}

i also love John, because of his flaws (not despite them). if he was perfect i'd think he was a boring bitchface and not spare him a thought. i think it's about writing characters who are interesting, not about writing beings above reproach.

what would i do? i'd do what any mother would do. i'd let them have the most stable childhood they could and once they grew up, they could make their own choices. the Winchesters (in this age of terrorism) are not the only one's whose parents were killed tragically. vengeance? bring-it-on-Bushism? not the best way to deal, at all. imo. in other words, i understand, but i don't condone.
Renée: Six/Gaius. Your destiny awaits.rogueslayer452 on May 12th, 2010 02:05 am (UTC)
Yeah, from what I found if you hate even one female character on the show you're seen as a misogynist, which many people label the show anyway. But I'm not going to love a female character I really dislike just because it would get me out of that lump, you know? That doesn't make much sense to me.

Eh well, we all have our perceptions of characters. I do agree that Dean was more lighthearted and wasn't seen as a complex character in the beginning of the series, but that changed and we've gone into something much deeper with his character, and I'm finding myself more drawn to that than Sam's arc. I mean I love the boys and all their fucked up ways, but that's how I generally see it. And that's okay, because everyone has different ways of viewing the boys and their journeys, nobody is in the right or wrong in that. :)

lol, that was more of a hypothetical question actually, but I see your point. But then again, it goes to how would someone react to something like that. I've found that there are differences in how mothers would handle such a situation than the fathers, so I think that's one reason. Especially with John's background as a Marine he probably thought that was the best course of action, whereas with any women you'd think of putting your child's safety first without putting them through such dangerous situations.

Although it's interesting, because from the show's mythology it's been their destiny to grow up hunters and experience what they did, to endure what they did. So this begs the question what would have happened if John had done what you suggested, but they ended up fucked up anyway? Is it destiny, fate, something inevitable? Mmmm....
Filomenaaubade_saudade on May 12th, 2010 02:27 am (UTC)
yeah, i get it. but i think saying stuff like "i hate the way they write female characters" tends to end the conversation. it's a shrug of the shoulders and moving on to the shiny boys. now, if people qualified it like you and said "i wish they'd done something else with these female characters," that's something else altogether. that opens up the conversation. that leaves room for possibilities. so i think me saying, "i like these chicks" like i just planted a flag-- that does make sense to me, because it's done with the intention of saying "just because they short-changed us in canon, that doesn't mean that there's not something we can do with them in fanon."

see, i don't think that Dean is less complex. i just think that there is a purity to his intentions that Sam doesn't always have. Dean's denials are loud and messy. Sam is well-intentioned (i hope) but super deceptive... maybe it's because i see Dean as bit more like the innocent savage or something. heh

;} i realized you weren't really asking me, but that pov was so reminiscent of American international policy in the last decade that i had to react. i felt like i was being asked by a republican whether i would have done things differently than Bush and my answer would be OMFGYES! even if it means i throw like a girl.

it's super interesting (fanfic fodder). i don't think anything is inevitable. i'm team freewill all the way. if it's all about fate, freewill is the biggest con ever, and we're all deadcerts.

Edited at 2010-05-12 02:31 am (UTC)
Kevin Jonesmulder200 on May 11th, 2010 11:45 pm (UTC)
I find myself agreeing with you on the writing and female characters. Talk about disappointment.(I also feel the same way about the race issues on the show but that another's topic altogether.)

And I agree with you about John Winchester. He's broken and human and tried his best.

And I agree about the fandom. Some good people but the majority seem to be nuts.
Renée: Misha. O_Orogueslayer452 on May 12th, 2010 12:47 am (UTC)
The show has its strengths and its weaknesses, writing of female roles is their weakest points that no matter how hard they attempt at it they just cannot get it right. I just want to say stop already, just focus on the boys and their journeys and don't butcher females anymore, okay?

Like, I love this show, but it's definitely not the kind of show you want to go for women empowerment.

I can't help but love John Winchester, and I think that's why I loved what Sam said to young!John in that one episode because he understood where his father was coming from, understood despite all those mistakes and choices he made he was trying to best he could in a difficult and complicated situation.

Ah, fandom. I love it but the whackjobs are just batshit insane. This is why I don't venture out into the SPN fandom that much, heh.
Hadhafangprlsb4swiine on May 12th, 2010 02:33 am (UTC)
Your selection of icons makes me sad and happy at the same time. :)

And I also enjoyed Miley Cyrus's new video... but just the wings... XD That's where it ended for me. LOL
Renée: Kahlan. Swept by the wind.rogueslayer452 on May 12th, 2010 03:26 am (UTC)
Awww, thanks. :) It's funny because I had just recently gotten into LotS and once I was hooked I was like "fuck it, I'm getting icons of this amazing show" :D But now it's ending for good, and I just can't believe it. DAMN THEM FOR TAKING AWAY SOMETHING I JUST GOT INTO.

Heee, yeah, I'm easy for wings in general. Love them. :D