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14 May 2010 @ 08:00 pm
More thoughts, because the finale has been doing that lately.  
It seems like the entire fandom is in a general consensus regarding what happened in the finale, which isn't surprising and it makes me glad that everyone is on the same page, but it has me worried, since we know Kripke and Co. pay attention to what fans are saying. What will their reactions be once seeing how we generally feel about it? How will this affect the show next season? Will they realize they fucked up, made mistakes, attempt to fix it, a.k.a. Kripke deciding to come back to fix his baby before it all falls apart?

I just keep wondering though, had they not announced there was to be a sixth season would have the finale been constructed better than it was? Had this season been organized better concerning the Apocalypse had they known it was probably going to be their last, allowing Kripke to give us that big bang of an ending to everything that he always wanted? Somehow I feel like the CW pushing for another season really kind of ruined what could have went down here, because the finale read like a series finale and yet, we know it isn't, and it kind of feels unsatisfactory and anticlimactic with how they handled things. We had such a heavy mythological arc build-up since S4 which all leads to this finale, you'd think they would have had something of substance concerning everything connected to the big showdown, which we didn't get. I just think had they not announced them getting another season (leaving that for the upfronts post-finale) I think we would have had a better more constructed season than it seemed. Because they had something going for it in the beginning, but somewhere in the middle is where it all started falling apart, and I think that's when the announcements and rumors about a sixth season being confirmed.

So yeah. Those are my thoughts. It just saddens me that I feel this way after what should have been an explosive finale, but like I've mentioned before it was all rushed to finish all of this off when, if they were to wrap it all up, it should have been two freaking hours or extended to the sixth season rather than just starting over. It feels wrong, especially with everything they've all been through and how much none of it was properly explained or resolved. I mean when you think about it, S1 and S2 was way better at wrapping everything up with that particular arc than what happened here, and that's just disappointing on so many levels.

I'm not ready to really write a proper review yet, since I'm still in this confused and baffled haze where coherency just isn't working right now. My mind is filled with mixed feelings over everything that I don't know how or what to feel, but I've been reading other people's thoughts and further opinions so I'm glad I'm not alone in this department. *hugs everyone* I'll probably get over this like, you know, in a week or something.

But um, good news? Heroes has been officially canceled. Long overdue, but still. \O/ At least the actors can go elsewhere getting jobs that will respect them and not waste their talents. Now can somebody explain to me why the fuck Smallville still exists and is getting a tenth season? O_o
Current Mood: thoughtfulthoughtful
Current Music: We Are The Fallen - Without You
(Deleted comment)
Renéerogueslayer452 on May 15th, 2010 10:19 am (UTC)
I figured either one or both of the brothers would die in the end of everything, because it's kind of inevitable given what was laid out for them. But seeing as they're the heroes they can't die permanently which guarantees their safety in the show (well, Sam apparently did die in this finale, which means his appearance at the very end was an apparition? ghost/spirit?) I think that's why I'm pissed at them offing off supporting characters as they have been doing.

They didn't explain Castiel's storyline in the end well, at least with last season we had both the boys and their separate journeys plus the bonding moments between Dean and Castiel which influenced Castiel's own personal storyline altogether. It was better structured that way. This? Not so much, because we had development, we had something going for Cas towards the end and they just left us hanging in the wind like, yeah that's it. I'm torn whether I want him to return so we have better explanation for everything or, whether I'd rather have this (crappy as it is) because I don't want his character to be assassinated. I AM SO VERY CONFUSED RIGHT NOW.
icecoldrain: Bones - Booth ?!?!icecoldrain on May 15th, 2010 03:17 am (UTC)
I can't help but wonder what would have happened if it wasn't coming back for another season. Would it have been somewhat the same of what they did, or would there would have been a big showdown? I was hoping for a big showdown since last season and we didn't get one XD I still liked the episode though, but it was strangely constructed.
Renée: Castiel. Searching for answers.rogueslayer452 on May 15th, 2010 07:45 am (UTC)
I definitely believe it would have been a bigger showdown, because when something is a series finale it has to be amped up, to really wrap things up that has been learned over the course of the show. That's why I wanted this to be the final season, because when you think Apocalypse you think epic shit like battles and stuff like that. I mean I know this was primarily about the brothers and them settling their personal issues, but they really needed to incorporate more into it than just that.

I think with all the hype with this being wrapping up the apocalyptic storyline we, as fans, expected it to be grander than it was. Which is why I was disappointed with how underwhelming it was presented to us.
(no subject) - icecoldrain on May 15th, 2010 05:16 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - rogueslayer452 on May 15th, 2010 10:59 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Kevin Jonesmulder200 on May 15th, 2010 03:29 am (UTC)
LOL at Heroes! Good riddance!

Oh sweetie! I feel your pain. I was hoping for something WAY MORE climatic than we what got and all we got was. . . that! I'm just so disappointed.
Renée: SPN. Castiel.rogueslayer452 on May 15th, 2010 07:59 am (UTC)
I was hoping for some kind of epic battle between Lucifer and Michael, or have Michael!Dean and Lucifer!Sam fight it out, which would incorporate both Dean's and Sam's destinies and having them fight both the angels and defeat Lucifer, which would have made sense given what we've been dealing with the entirety of these last two seasons. Or you know, had something larger than life with angels and demons duking it out.

I mean, isn't that what you think when you think Apocalypse? Perhaps I had higher expectations. Hell, I think fanfiction does better with handling the apocalyptic storyline than what the show did.
calidreamin08calidreamin08 on May 15th, 2010 04:11 am (UTC)
THIS to everything you said!
idk if you've read this but somebody posted this link on ontd_spnparty and it's an interesting look on the finale:

yea, idk why hell smallville is still on. that's just sad. apparently they might do a special finale for heroes.
Renée: Dean/Castiel. Bittersweet.rogueslayer452 on May 15th, 2010 10:09 am (UTC)
Thanks for the link, it's rather interesting. And while I agree that the finale was primarily about the brothers since that's what the show has been about, the bonding and brotherhood of Sam and Dean and about freedom and choice and stuff like that, them growing up and such, but it's how they treated it in the latter half of the season, and yes the treatment of supporting characters (all of whom I kind of appreciate more, tbh) and even Castiel who was supposedly "regular" (when instead he just got two more episodes than last season, even though he was contracted for more).

So, I don't know. I get that this show is about the Winchester legacy and that's what the finale was trying to focus on, but they didn't do a great job with constructing it as such. If anything, it should have been two hours rather than one to fit everything that they potentially setup.

I'm still thinking everything through, mulling it over and trying to decipher my actual feelings about the finale and the season as a whole. It's all over the place. Heh.

I'm wondering if the actors on Smallville are like, "this is absolutely shitty, but hey paycheck!" Gotta get your dolla-dolla somewhere, amirite?
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Renée: Kahlan. Swept by the wind.rogueslayer452 on May 15th, 2010 10:26 am (UTC)
It's just sad that I fell out of love with Heroes just as fast as I began loving it. Like, season one was golden, but after that it all just went downhill. It's depressing knowing that I used to be really involved with that show/fandom, but at least now Kring won't ruin it any further. Canceling it is putting it out of its misery, pretty much. I have no idea what is happening with the characters now, it's like lolwhut every time I read something about it.

nibor tnua: SPN: I don't wanna feel your painskyisfalling on May 15th, 2010 04:30 am (UTC)
I agree with everything you wrote. The finale felt SO rushed and when it ended, I thought 'That's it?!'. I can't help but wonder that if they knew this was the last season if the whole season would have been different and better constructed. I expected SO much with yesterday's finale and felt let down. I expected a huge epic battle between Mike and Luci and nothing happened. Yeah, they fell into the pit but it all felt anti-climactic. I was really prepared for Bobby and/or Cas to die - and stay that way. The 'major character death' was Sam and hello! That's almost a given - he had to die to defeat Lucifer if he wanted to say yes to him. I want to like the finale so much but I don't know if I can or if it'll grow on me. It's sorta like 'Journey's End' and 'The End of Time' for Doctor Who. I just don't know. ...So I'll quit rambling. ;)

I think the announcement of the 6th season so early had a rather large influence on how the finale and the whole end of the season played out. That makes me sad too. :(
Renée: Castiel. Searching for answers.rogueslayer452 on May 15th, 2010 10:34 am (UTC)
I think the announcement of the 6th season so early had a rather large influence on how the finale and the whole end of the season played out. That makes me sad too. :(

Pretty much. I mean, I'm still very uncertain about having a sixth season in general but couldn't they have waited until like after they finished filming the season to announce it or something? It definitely influenced how they treated the latter half of S5 because once realizing they were getting another year added on they probably shifted and changed things around to "leave it open" when they should have just treated this as though it was really going to be their last season. I mean, shouldn't you do that anyway regardless if you have another season setup or not?

It felt unfinished, like there's so much more to tell and show concerning the Apocalypse and yet they wanted to end it this season and "start anew" next season, which pisses me off that they dragged their heels with everything apocalyptic-like. I mean, I don't know, maybe I am bitching too much but there are legitimate reasons to bitch about because I do love the show and how they presented the additional mythology -- and seeing them treat it like this disappoints and frustrates me.
(no subject) - noybusiness on May 15th, 2010 02:12 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - rogueslayer452 on May 15th, 2010 02:23 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Shonaille: Jesse and Derek Duplicity love & alt reakalikahuntress on May 15th, 2010 04:37 am (UTC)
I think it's sad as soon as the ep ended I just wanted to know if all of Jim and Misha's hard work finally landed them jobs where they get more cred and airtime. I can't believe how indifferent I have become to this show and I realized I can't support any show that doesn't care about their supporting characters.
Renée: Dean/Castiel. Between us.rogueslayer452 on May 15th, 2010 06:56 am (UTC)
I don't think it really hit me how much they've wasted opportunities with supporting characters until they killed off Gabriel. That's when I realized that they're just bringing characters back just to kill them off, or in the case of the finale, just wrap everything up as quickly as possible without any regards to these characters and their storylines. Like, I remember from last year's Chicago Con Jim Beaver mentioned that he didn't want Bobby to be magically healed because he wanted to see how the character would realistically deal with having to be disabled while living the life he lived as a hunter. He wanted that, and yet here we have him walking again after making a deal and it's just, really? I mean yeah they had his character dealing with such depression after that but, there should have been more to it than that. And of course, Castiel's quick thing in the finale left me feeling hurt because after all that building up and development over the course of these two seasons and much potential with exploring his character more...that's it? That's all there was?

It makes me wonder if having a sixth season, let alone announcing it as early as they did, was the right decision to make. I would prefer this have been the final season and them getting it right rather than just wrapping shit up to have another season.
goldenusagigoldenusagi on May 15th, 2010 04:47 am (UTC)
I do wonder how the finale would have been different if there was no season six. As well as if the season would have been different. I mean, I guess we were never going to get a big angel fight (since the fight between Michael and Lucifer would actually end the world), but it should have felt more epic. Something.
Renée: Castiel. Angels bleed too.rogueslayer452 on May 15th, 2010 06:46 am (UTC)
It certainly would have felt more conclusive and satisfactory, and actually would have felt like a finale instead of having things left unanswered and unresolved, or at least untouched on topics that we touched that never were mentioned here. So, yeah.
(Deleted comment)
Renée: Castiel. Guardian angel.rogueslayer452 on May 15th, 2010 06:08 am (UTC)
It just concerns me that some fans are really happy that Cas is gone. Hmmm.

Heh, those are probably the anti-Castiel folks. They do exist in this fandom, but only like a handful. They're the ones who think Castiel is the third wheel and has been splitting Sam and Dean apart or something. Which is weird, but whatever. Though the majority of fans really really love Castiel and want Misha to still continue to be part of the show as a regular, since he is a fan favorite. I don't think they would be stupid enough to get rid of him, but then we had this finale so, meh.

Also Heroes wise - totally agree. Man, I hope SPN is not the next Heroes =/

I hope not either. :/
cheerful_earl: No Free Willcheerful_earl on May 15th, 2010 06:51 am (UTC)
I think getting renewed early really messed with their season arc. The ending was supposed to be explosive, but needing to bring them back really damaged what they could do.

I still don't really understand how I feel about it. I wrote out a whole post about it, and it came out rather positive, which is weird, coz I didn't like it. I just don't know.

I can't even believe Smallville is still on. I'm a freaking fan of the show, and trust me, we don't understand it either (or at least my half of fandom doesn't). It's so *terrible*. Like you cannot fathom the bad.

I'm glad Heroes is done. That show is a mess.
Renée: Dean/Castiel. Between us.rogueslayer452 on May 15th, 2010 10:47 am (UTC)
They really should have just treated S5 as though it really was their last season regardless whether they knew they were being renewed or not, especially if they are going to do a "restart" it would have made much more sense to end things on an explosive level rather than just what we got, you know? Less with the filler episodes, more concerning the Apocalypse and the angels and Castiel and his personal quest this season, all which play a huge role in the brother's paths and destinies and such. I mean, I know it's about the epic bromance between the brothers and such, but seriously, you can do emotional character stories without ruining or forgetting the entire mytharc of the series. Other shows have done it, so can SPN. They just sucked at presenting it in such a way.

I don't know. I'm just in this state of WHAT THE FUCK JUST HAPPENED ON MY SHOW? that I'm having a hard to understanding my own feelings about all of what occurred.

I can't even believe Smallville is still on. I'm a freaking fan of the show, and trust me, we don't understand it either (or at least my half of fandom doesn't). It's so *terrible*. Like you cannot fathom the bad.

LOL! Isn't it kind of hilariously sad that even fans of the show are going, WTF IS THIS STILL GOING ON?! XD I guess they just want to do whatever they can until they're finally kicked off the air. Even the actors must be going like, seriously, I'm getting paid for this bullcrap?
(no subject) - cheerful_earl on May 17th, 2010 06:48 am (UTC) (Expand)
Margot Mary May Margeneginevra_alessa on May 15th, 2010 09:12 am (UTC)

I loved the last season of "Heroes" :(
I stopped watching for soooo long and never caught up or anything and admittedly only tuned in again to see Claire be girlsmoochy, but then I just got really back into it...
Renée: Dean/Castiel. Bittersweet.rogueslayer452 on May 15th, 2010 10:52 am (UTC)
Eh, that's the only reason they did that though, to pull viewers back into it by having a "lesbian kiss" which is very cheap of a move. I'm sorry that you're sad that it's canceled since you started liking it again but, let's face it, it was pretty much doomed because it was such a huge mess with zero respect for not only the characters but the actors involved as well.

I used to really love the show too, like really really love it. But it's sad how rock bottom it really fell. :( It had so much potential in the beginning, too.
thandie: cas future smilingthandie on May 15th, 2010 09:37 am (UTC)
Aw, I'm sorry you are feeling like this about the finale.

I can tell you my personal theory about why it was, um, 'constructed' like this? If I have to be honest I think this finale was possibly even better than the season 4 finale. I still think it was definitively oddly made, not very epic AT ALL, and sad and hopeless, but I also think it was a LOT more moving than the season 4 and the season 3 finale.
I say this because I remember I didn't feel ANYTHING at those two other episodes, I just watched them talk and talk and talk, events unfolded and it was the most anticlimatic thing ever. Even Dean dying in season 3 was SO obvious and made in such a way that there was no way I could care about it.

Instead with this one I think they went heavier with the emotional side of things, even if I agree that it was not an ending worth of an apocalypse. But at the same time I know this is NOT supposed to be an ending. Since they knew they were having another season I'm sure they stopped thinking in terms of epic finale, they just wanted to reset the season and create a good beginning for season 6, so I can't even call this episode a finale.

I guess that's why this worked for me? Just wanted to share. And I liked the cheesy montage thing that interrupted the flow of the episode, btw, in terms of writing it was SO clever! A wonderfully lame and Harmony-like POV on the events, God's POV...I couldn't have thought of a better idea to put that in the episode.
Renée: Dean/Castiel. Bittersweet.rogueslayer452 on May 15th, 2010 02:04 pm (UTC)
I don't know, quite honestly. I'm just still very indifferent towards everything right now just as a whole. It's like while I was watching it I wasn't particularly bothered and I sort of liked it, but afterward the more I thought about what happened the more flaws and holes I saw in it because it was incredibly anticlimactic. While S4's finale also had an anticlimactic feel to it I found that finale to be more exciting than this one, because this was supposed to have been the BIG DAMN APOCALYPTIC FINALE to wrap everything up.

While the emotional points between the brothers was great, I found the whole ordeal with Sam to be kind of predictable. I don't know, I just was never that invested with his story that much this season. I understood the direction of redemption and all of that, but I think I feel cheated that we never went anywhere regarding Dean's journey. Again, it's how they've handled the emotional points with the brothers, which sometimes is kind of overdone. Not that it's not touching to see those flashbacks and the story unfold between them, but it's one of the show's flaws at times to really overdo the angst between them. I just, I don't know. I felt like there should have been something more.

I think my biggest disappointment isn't with the brother stuff, but it's with the handling of everything else. What about Lucifer and Michael? The fucked up dysfunctional angel family in Heaven issues? Castiel's storyline and his personal journey (which is what I feel more upset about how they handled that)? Bobby's storyline? The entire mytharc altogether? Everything was completely rushed that I'm not that interested with the boys and their issues right now, but rather how all of that supporting stuff, which I became more interested in as the season went on, was just pushed to the side and never gave a proper way of explanation.

This entire season just felt all over the place, really. The finale didn't help matters either. I get that it's about the brothers and always has been, but when you've come so far into the show having many different elements to balance off of, shouldn't you find a way to at least deal with all of that equally?

Just, yeah. I'm very mixed about everything.
(no subject) - thandie on May 15th, 2010 04:56 pm (UTC) (Expand)
flood_and_fire on May 15th, 2010 10:19 am (UTC)

I'll be honest, Ive been losing touch with SPN this season, watching the odd episode here and there. I watched the finale and I agree it was anti climactic, but the stuff about the Impala was incredibly sweet and wonderfully done. I agree, it was a weird finale, I feel like the writers didnt really know what the hell they were doing with it...
I think I've just fallen out of love with the show. Whenever I watched an episode from this season I just felt sad with regards to the brothers' relationship being so different than the earlier seasons. :( :(
Renée: Dean/Castiel. Bittersweet.rogueslayer452 on May 15th, 2010 11:15 am (UTC)
I think I've just fallen out of love with the show. Whenever I watched an episode from this season I just felt sad with regards to the brothers' relationship being so different than the earlier seasons. :( :(

Well, it's supposed to have been the entire point though, because both of them went through so much that's it's impossible for them to remain how they were. It's the progression of their characters and their relationship, which I do like. Although it's more or less how they've been handling their epic mainpain which overshadows their growth that's been bothering me lately. It kind of gets old and tiring how they rehash their issues time and again without much resolve until moments like these where it's like, uh huh yeah we saw this coming like a mile away. Which I think even the actors are aware of that, actually.

Although I'll be honest, these days I'm more interested in the mytharcs and the supporting characters (mainly Castiel, because I love him dearly) and what I loved about S4 was how Dean and Sam both got their separate storylines which allowed them to grow without being so codependent on each other.
Dragon Lorddragon_lord on May 15th, 2010 12:40 pm (UTC)
I stopped watching Heroes after s3 (and I really don't know how I made it that far) but I know a lot of my flist is really hurt by the decision. I feel for them.

And I thought S9 was it for Smallville. How the fuck is that show still on? I've tried watching it but it's practically incoherent.
Renéerogueslayer452 on May 15th, 2010 01:39 pm (UTC)
I stopped watching like right at the beginning of S3, mostly because the show wasn't recognizable anymore; they really messed with the characterizations and there was no development and it was all over the place. Which is a shame because it had so much potential after the first season.

Smallville is like, idek. It's the bad kind of crack where they're just doing weird shit just because. I don't even think there's a point to it anymore.
Becky: SPN: Dean/Casbeckytheelf on May 15th, 2010 03:22 pm (UTC)
I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING YOU SAID, BB. beckytheelf likes this very very much. I'm probably going to get crucifed and burnt at the stake for this but I wish this WAS the last season so we could have at least gotten a decent finale that tied everything up for us...not nicely or neatly but just finished everything up. Or if not, they could have handled the writing for this one just a bit better. I know getting a Season Six must have thrown them off track and they probably had to reorganize a lot of things but I also wish they had extended the Arc into season six so that they could have done all their hard work (and rewarded our patience...LOL) some justice.
Also, I kind of always wanted to tell you this: I know you love this show and I give you major props for admitting that this show isn't always ~PURFECT, FLAWLESS UHMAZING~ like a crazy fangirl wearing blinders.
We always get a lot of flack for criticizing this show but we honestly can't just sit down and declare that we ~LURV EVERYTHING. THIS IS LIKE TEH BEST SHOW EVR. SAM AND DEAN AND THEIR EPICNESS FOREVA WILL SAVE THE WORLD. AND IF YOU DON'T LIEK IT, STOP WATCHING THE SHOW AND QUIT BEING A H8TER.~
I loved parts of the episode (like the whole Sam and Dean epic love story and BAMF!Cas) but there was a lot of it that I didn't really enjoy. I thought the ep seemed rushed like someone told them they had two days or something to come up with a script and film it. LOL. I know it sounds bad but that is the BEST explanation that I can come up with for that RUSHED EP.
Also, I hate the idea of them starting over from the beginning but I suppose that's just me not ~LOVING TEH MOST EPICK SHOW OF ALL TIEM~ and having an opinion.

EDITED: To say I am so sorry for getting so TMI in here. FORGIVE ME. OH GOSH. LOL.

Edited at 2010-05-17 02:03 am (UTC)
Renée: Dean/Castiel. Bittersweet.rogueslayer452 on May 17th, 2010 03:23 am (UTC)
Girl, if you're gonna be crucified for saying that than I will too. Hell, I think most people feel the same way we do. I would have preferred either this being the final season or for them to have written half of the season better than they did. I've had that feeling most of the season, and what happened in the finale was the final straw for me. You'd think even with such knowledge of having a sixth season they would still keep true their original plans, because if they are restarting shit it would have made sense to at least handle everything like it was a final season, and left a mini-cliffhanger for what S6 might be about, you know?

They really should have extended this arc. I feel like we had so much amazing rich material that was wasted just because of the brothers. Not that I don't love their dynamic because I do, but there are other contributors to the show than just them that deserve to be treated just as fairly.

Also, I kind of always wanted to tell you this: I know you love this show and I give you major props for admitting that this show isn't always ~PURFECT, FLAWLESS UHMAZING~ like a crazy fangirl wearing blinders.

Thank you, I appreciate that very much. :) Acknowledging the flaws and faults a show has doesn't mean one is a ~hater, since without such a voice exclaiming our concerns the show would continue to do those things without taking those concerns into consideration. As we do know that Kripke and Co. often do read and listen to what their fans are saying. I mean, you can still love and be a fan of the show even if there are things you dislike about it. And it's because of my love for the show and its characters that I'm upset with how they've handled certain things in their little writing room.