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28 November 2010 @ 02:16 pm
Michael and Lucifer downtime?  
I'm actually wondering, since Lucifer and Michael are still trapped in the cage, would they be succumbed to having a little brotherly bonding time, or fighting it out as they were supposed to have done and then, after years Hell-time of duking it out, they start bonding and making amends? Also, assuming that Sam's soul is still trapped in there as well (however they plan on explaining that), would he be kind of playing referee? Hey, what better way spending solitary confinement with two archangels trying to sort out their brotherly and familial differences. It would actually be a metaphor of the Winchesters, the fact they keep rehashing the same-old issues and it would take centuries for them to come to any kind of resolve or moving forward. Not that I like that direction they're still doing for them honestly, it's boring as fuck now, but whatever.

Also, I miss Marksha. ;___; Despite being an important factor last season they really underused him. I am sorely disappoint. MARKSHA COME BACK TO US!

They also need to mention Adam somewhere this season. Neglecting him is just making their continuity failings even worse. Just saying.
 
 
Current Mood: thoughtfulthoughtful
 
 
 
Tracy: Cas Rock The Cas!Balalexwhitman25 on November 28th, 2010 10:29 pm (UTC)
It fills me with rage that they still haven't even dropped a single mention of Adam this season. I shouldn't be surprised since he is prime example of the major issues this show has with bringing things up only when they are relevant to the plot instead of focusing on what logically makes sense regarding characterization. Souless!Sam is easier to explain away, but Dean showing no concern or regard for his brother? It makes him look like a grade A asshole.

I can't wait for the US version of Being Human strictly for some Marksha and Jeremy Carter. I miss their influences and presence in SPN.
Renée: Castiel. Guardian angel.rogueslayer452 on November 28th, 2010 10:40 pm (UTC)
There should have at least been a question of concern about him still being trapped in Lucifer's cage, particularly in the premiere when Dean realized Sam came back. It's pretty much the thing to ask because hey if Sam had mysteriously gotten out, what about Adam? Is he okay, what's going on? And yet...nothing. It's not surprising from the poor judgment of decisions this show often does, but still. It's severely disappointing that they don't even say anything. It's just all about Sam. No regards for any other characters involved, as always. -__-

I totally forgot that Marksha and Jeremy Carver were working together! *facepalm* But yes, that is exciting. I just wish they would both return to Supernatural and save it from being trainwreck it's becoming this season....
(no subject) - high_flyer87 on November 28th, 2010 10:40 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - alexwhitman25 on November 29th, 2010 03:43 am (UTC) (Expand)
Kay: SPN // Michael/Lucifer // see you fallaeon_entwined on November 28th, 2010 10:39 pm (UTC)
Finally, someone voicing the same thoughts that have been plaguing me for about the past six months. :(

We need more Angels and less Winchesters being obtuse.
Renée: Lucifer. I'm an angel.rogueslayer452 on November 28th, 2010 10:42 pm (UTC)
Heh, I think I'm speaking for a lot of folks out there who aren't speaking up. Because apparently if you dismiss anything Winchester or dislike certain directions (this season esp) you aren't a true fan of the show and should just stop watching. -__-

It's still in my opinion that they should have either done a televised movie of the Winchesters with this season's storyline with them (whatever that is I'm still not sure) and wrap it all up for them and just done a spin-off with the angels. I mean, doesn't that sound more logical than having more seasons that are just mainly filler anyway?

Edited at 2010-11-28 10:43 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - aeon_entwined on November 28th, 2010 10:57 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - rogueslayer452 on November 28th, 2010 11:47 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - xarixian on November 29th, 2010 01:27 am (UTC) (Expand)
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as good as baby Jesus in velvet pants: Adam2high_flyer87 on November 28th, 2010 10:50 pm (UTC)
You know my thoughts on Adam. Bb needs to come back, and writers need to stop being stupid.

I love the idea of Mike and Lucifer down in the cage together. There would of course be a centuries worth of beatings, but eventually they'd have to calm down and take a break. Yeah? And then they'd talk. Cuz you know Lucifer at least likes to talk. He'd have plenty to say.

And Sam and Adam (because I'm choosing to believe he's still down there with Sam, and when they get Sam's soul back, they'll get Adam back too *wishful thinking*) are over in the corner together watching. Sam steps in every once in a while with his helpful puppy-dog eagerness to sort things out and get them to understand one another, and Adam just rolls his eyes and snarks and maybe gets them all to laugh every once in a while.

IDK. Whatever. My brain enjoys the 4 of them down there together. Like one giant group time-out XD
Renée: Michael!John. BAMF.rogueslayer452 on November 28th, 2010 11:38 pm (UTC)
The fact they hardly gave a mention in passing about him still being stuck in the cage is seriously disconcerting. It's like they bring him back as the faked red-herring and now that he's no longer useful for plot devices they can just ditch him. MENTION HIM GODDAMMIT. HE IS A CHARACTER TOO YOU KNOW.

IDK. Whatever. My brain enjoys the 4 of them down there together. Like one giant group time-out XD

I really like this idea, and seriously there should be fic about it because I can totally see this happening. It would be awesome. Hey, it would be a lot more interesting than the stuff the show has been dealing with lately (sans the angel civil war stuff, because I want more of that and soon please).
goldenusagigoldenusagi on November 28th, 2010 11:51 pm (UTC)
I desperately want to know what is going on in the cage. Epic fight? Sullen sulking? Both griping about God? The worst family reunion ever?

And yes, there needs to be an Adam mention.

Edited at 2010-11-28 11:52 pm (UTC)
Renée: Castiel. Searching for answers.rogueslayer452 on November 29th, 2010 12:41 am (UTC)
It's something I've been curious about, since they're still down there it would be nice to know what is happening. I definitely think it's the worst family reunion complete with fighting and sulking.

At first I was uncertain of Adam as a character, but I've grown kind of fond of the kid, and the fact they aren't even mentioning him makes me mad.

(btw, I totally love your icon. :D)
(no subject) - goldenusagi on November 29th, 2010 12:48 am (UTC) (Expand)
Tori Sakanaepicycles on November 29th, 2010 12:19 am (UTC)
Okay I haven't caught up yet (stalled out at 6.06) but...they still haven't mentioned Adam? WTF I liked Adam. It really bugs me that sometimes you don't even know if characters are alive or dead because no one ever mentions them unless they are required for the plot (recent example: Rufus). One of the most universal things humans do is talk about other people, get with it Show.

Also, YES MORE MARKSHA. I MISS HIS FACE. I vote scenes of Marksha!Lucifer and MattCohen!Michael in the cage!
Renée: Michael!John. BAMF.rogueslayer452 on November 29th, 2010 12:47 am (UTC)
I feel more horrible for him than Sam or Dean right now because the poor kid often gets the short end of the stick, both inside of the show and by the writers themselves. :/ They just don't give a crap about him apparently. I mean seriously, even if they weren't ever gonna show him again at least have them be somewhat concerned that hey, Adam fell into the cage too and is suffering as well. He is still your half-brother and all, at least show that you actually care about other people other than yourselves, please. kthx.

It's not surprising this show doesn't think ahead in that department though. They're either for plot devices or they're not there at all, one of their MAJOR flaws that I am fed up with, to be honest.

I MISS MARKSHA SFM! And yes, while I liked Adam I wished they would have had Marksha still be Lucifer and Matt as Michael, because Matt was freaking awesome playing Michael!John. Either that or they could have done Sam!Lucifer and Dean!Michael and not whatever they did in that finale (still hate that finale btw, so lame).
icecoldrain: Supernatural - Sam is Harry Pottericecoldrain on November 29th, 2010 12:20 am (UTC)
It really bugs me that they have failed to mention Adam this season. Hey Sam, you're not the only one who fell into the cage. Poor Adam, first he didn't know he had brothers and was eaten by Golems. Then he came back and started to believe that his brothers might actually care about him after being duped, only to be completely forgotten. idk, not even Bobby mentioned him. Either they forgot all about it or they haven't figured out how to deal with it even though no mention of him at all is like WAIT, WHAT'S GOING ON WITH ADAM. Does soulless Sam really remember anything from being in hell? He doesn't want to talk about it, but I wonder if he doesn't have any memories of it at all so he's got no clue what's going on there.

I wonder how they're going to explain Adam/Lucifer/Michael/Sam's soul all being together when it finally surfaces. It'd also be interesting to see how Sam will react to his memories of his time without his soul when he gets it back. It'd be even more interesting if for some reason he doesn't remember anything from when his soul was gone.
Renée: Castiel. Searching for answers.rogueslayer452 on November 29th, 2010 12:59 am (UTC)
Poor Adam always gets the short end of the stick. I feel more bad for him than Sam or Dean at this point, because everyone keeps forgetting about him. D: WE REMEMBER YOU ADAM, DON'T WORRY! PRAYER CIRCLE FOR ADAM RIGHT NOW.

Does soulless Sam really remember anything from being in hell? He doesn't want to talk about it, but I wonder if he doesn't have any memories of it at all so he's got no clue what's going on there.

I've been wondering this myself. But Sam apparently wasn't in Hell (solitary confinement of Lucifer's cage that is) that long anyway, since didn't he say he rose immediately the day he fell in? That wouldn't have been enough time. Unless he was lying, or that when he was pulled out soulless he chose not to remember anything or if that was part of the deal, which would be sketchiness upon sketchiness of him. Which could be expected from him now because he's without his soul, but I don't think that should be excusable if there's something he's hiding.

I wonder how they're going to explain Adam/Lucifer/Michael/Sam's soul all being together when it finally surfaces. It'd also be interesting to see how Sam will react to his memories of his time without his soul when he gets it back. It'd be even more interesting if for some reason he doesn't remember anything from when his soul was gone.

The whole soul situation is more complicated and confusing because the show isn't exactly clear on what this actually means. There is no solid groundwork for the mythos regarding it, and even though they are unclear within the show itself about what it means with Sam being without his soul, they keep on being inconsistent with the information that I'm just like ENOUGH WITH THIS ALREADY! At least with Joss Whedon shows there was an easy explanation or guideline regarding someone having or not having their soul. This seems like...such a mess, like the season itself currently. But whatever.
(no subject) - icecoldrain on November 29th, 2010 01:07 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - rogueslayer452 on November 29th, 2010 01:28 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - icecoldrain on November 29th, 2010 01:40 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - rogueslayer452 on November 29th, 2010 02:11 am (UTC) (Expand)
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(no subject) - rogueslayer452 on November 29th, 2010 03:18 am (UTC) (Expand)
Becky: Misha Collinsbeckytheelf on November 29th, 2010 12:32 am (UTC)
Continuity? Can anyone on Supernatural even SPELL that word? I wish Marksha could somehow come back and be an evil voice taunting Sam inside his head or something. He is awesome and is woefully underused in ALL his shows.
Also, clearly Lucy and Michael are just going to give Sam's soul back because they've obvs got nothing else to do with their time. *Facepalm*
Renée: Misha Collins. IDEK.rogueslayer452 on November 29th, 2010 12:52 am (UTC)
SERIOUSLY. FOR REAL NOW. And dude, if there were to be a spin-off with the angels and the mytharc I would so want Marksha to be featured all the freaking time with everyone else that has been neglected by the Show. Supporting and secondary characters ftw.

Actually, that's one of my theories that while everyone is trying to get their asses back in gear on the ground with their own same-old boring issues, Lucifer and Michael are actually being productive and moving things alone and gonna bring Sam and Adam back and be all "well, y'all weren't doing shit so we decided to do your work for you!" and that? Would get serious lulz from me, because it would be more entertaining than the show has been currently.
Xarixianxarixian on November 29th, 2010 01:16 am (UTC)
XD I'd totally forgotten about Adam. I didn't even think about him having fallen into the pit and being trapped in Hell with Sam.
God, it really is all about Sammy isn't it?
So maybe Sam and Adam are bonding and getting to know eachother, and they're just knocking back warm beers while watching Michael and Lucifer wrestle.
Renée: Castiel/Lucifer. Angels of the Lord.rogueslayer452 on November 29th, 2010 01:42 am (UTC)
God, it really is all about Sammy isn't it?

That should tagline of the show, unfortunately. :/

So maybe Sam and Adam are bonding and getting to know eachother, and they're just knocking back warm beers while watching Michael and Lucifer wrestle.

lol, I really like this theory because I can totally see it happening. In fact, if the show had a larger budget, I wouldn't mind seeing this storyline play out. ;p
just a small town girl: [supernatural] archangel gabrielcarameltrap on November 29th, 2010 01:19 am (UTC)
I like to think they Lucifer and Michael will engage in some fisticuffs for the first several years (since time in hell passes differently) before coming to some sort of grudging brotherly bonding. Silly aside, the writers are forgetting about Adam. He's still stuck down there, people. Not only that, there is no peep from the brothers about him. None from Sam, I get since he's a soulless automaton but Dean? Did you forget? When are they going to bring him up?
Renée: Caprica. Zoe Graystone.rogueslayer452 on November 29th, 2010 01:35 am (UTC)
Heh, that seems like the popular theory, Lucifer and Michael fighting before suddenly coming to a truce and just end up chilling and talking.

But yeah, I really dislike there hasn't been ONE MENTION of Adam since this seasons started. Even in the premiere you'd think Dean would have at least asked about Adam since Sam had returned from the cage. But nothing. It makes me even more disappointed in the show for the lack of consistency and continuity. I wouldn't be surprised that they hardly bring him up because he's no longer a plot device, why would they bring him up anymore? *rolls eyes*

I doubt it'll happen, but if they do manage to mention him even in passing during a conversation I'll be shocked and surprised.
(no subject) - carameltrap on November 29th, 2010 01:49 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - rogueslayer452 on November 29th, 2010 02:06 am (UTC) (Expand)
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(no subject) - rogueslayer452 on November 29th, 2010 03:27 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - rogueslayer452 on November 29th, 2010 03:26 am (UTC) (Expand)
Kevin Jonesmulder200 on November 29th, 2010 03:31 am (UTC)
Let's face it. ANYTHING is better than Dean and Sam angst. Or mostly Dean angst since Sam doesn't care about anyone except himself. I can't stand him this season. He's so annoying.

And whole civil war in Heaven season sounds awesome but I have a feeling it's gonna be a bunch of tell and not show just like Castiel's quest for God.

And Poor Adam! The Winchester brother that everyone (including the writers) forget. Talk about missed opportunities.


Renée: Dean/Castiel.rogueslayer452 on November 29th, 2010 04:03 am (UTC)
I preferred Dean when he actually had something to legitimately be angsting over (his destiny about being the Righteous Man even though the show retconned and shot that all to hell for their own purposes, having the entire weight of the world on his shoulders, worrying about his brother turning into a monster, etc.) but this season it's like, man-paining but focused on the wrong things.

Sam is entertaining when he doesn't have a filter, but I have a feeling they are gonna drag all this soulless shit out. Get some new material show, my God. -__-

And whole civil war in Heaven season sounds awesome but I have a feeling it's gonna be a bunch of tell and not show just like Castiel's quest for God.

Surprisingly I have some optimism that they are gonna be dealing with that in the second half of the season more, because after "The Third Man" I feel like they are definitely going somewhere with it and it's gonna be connected to whatever the boys are dealing with. Or so reports have said. They've been wrong before, but still I'm holding out for something.

And Poor Adam! The Winchester brother that everyone (including the writers) forget. Talk about missed opportunities.

It's a habit with this show, unfortunately. So much potential and many opportunities missed out....I shouldn't be surprised, yet I am. :(
kaiyotekaiyote on November 29th, 2010 07:15 am (UTC)
I STILL DON'T SEE WHY MARKSHA CAN'T COME BACK AS GHOST!NICK! :(

As for what Michael and Lucifer are doing in the cage, I really have no idea. I do have to say that I honestly can't imagine them torturing Sam and/or Adam in there tho. I mean they have like millennia of issues with each other and they're going to spend it messing with some stupid humans instead of fighting amongst themselves? Yeah, okay then.

And the lack of an Adam mention makes me sad. Like, are they actually planning on mentioning him or have the writers totally forgotten? :\

ETA: Okay, wait. I do think that Michael and Lucifer would never stop fighting, regardless of how long they'd be in the cage together. Angels aren't particularly capable of change in the first place, and I really don't believe that however long they're in there for would still be an adequate amount of time. (Even it's for all of time.) 'cause I mean, remember, these are beings who've existed forever. It'd take even longer than that for them to start to forgive each other and eventually be brothers again or have some type of relationship that isn't just trying to kill each other.

Edited at 2010-11-29 08:06 am (UTC)
Renée: SPN. Castiel.rogueslayer452 on November 29th, 2010 05:37 pm (UTC)
OMGYES. GHOST!NICK OR EVEN HALLUCINATION!LUCIFER (as Dean did with the Yellow-Eyed Demon) C'MON, WITH THIS SHOW ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE!

'cause I mean, remember, these are beings who've existed forever. It'd take even longer than that for them to start to forgive each other and eventually be brothers again or have some type of relationship that isn't just trying to kill each other.

This is true, although stuck in a solitary confinement, or "time out" as I would say, would be kind of a way to try and resolve something because really, there's no where else to go. And assuming that Hell-time works the same way in that cage, it would have been like over hundreds of years already right? So you'd think Lucifer and Michael would have dealt with at least one particular issue arising between them. Granted both Lucifer and Michael were strictly adamant about their confrontation on the battlefield and duking it out. So who knows? It's something to ponder upon, honestly, which I highly doubt the show will ever mention or touch on unless it's for a particular reason.
Tinkagwaevalarin on November 29th, 2010 07:33 am (UTC)
I miss Marksha too but I can't really see how they could bring him back. Then again, it's Supernatural so they'd probably find a way if they really wanted.

But Adam, they have to bring him up again. And soon. He is a Winchester after all and Dean just forgetting about their little brother does not make any sense at all.

I'd love to learn what is happening between Lucifer and Michael. In Hell time they've been down there quite a while now and I don't really know if they even can fight it out down there. Or if Michael even wants to since this is not exactly the way it is "supposed" to go.

Renée: Castiel. Guardian angel.rogueslayer452 on November 29th, 2010 08:27 am (UTC)
Before the season premiered one of my theories was that Marksha could appear as a hallucination Sam conjures up or something, taunting him. Granted we only got that from the YED when Dean was hallucinating in the premiere, but if they could do that and bring back Fredric Lehne then they certainly could do so with Marksha in some form or another.

Even if Adam was their half-brother he still was a Winchester and had fallen underneath the unfortunate fate he was supposed to have gone through, so you'd think there would be some kind of talk of concern over him. But naturally, that's failure of the show.

Considering the cage is more solitary confinement than anything, I would assume that spending all that "quality time" with your brother, years or centuries or however long it would take them, they would have to talk about something. Anything. I could imagine them going around in circles like Sam and Dean do all the time, until finally coming to some compromise.
Tangles: Winchesters - Adamentangled_now on November 29th, 2010 08:35 am (UTC)
Yes, much as I love the show there is a certain 'no one matters except the Winchesters' flavour to it that grates on me horribly. Adam is just the last in a long line of characters used and then completely, and bizarrely forgotten about.

I think Michael and Lucifer take turns fighting and bonding, depending on what they're in the mood for.
Renée: Dean/Castiel. Bittersweet.rogueslayer452 on November 29th, 2010 05:50 pm (UTC)
It even bums me out that Adam is still technically a Winchester himself, being their half-brother and all, and he continues to be let out in the cold and forgotten about because unless they want to use him as part of some devious plotpoint for the show, he doesn't exist. Which is sloppy and lazy and rather idiotic of the writers to begin with. When there's a character introduced and part of something bigger, even if the actor cannot return for whatever reason, that doesn't mean you should just forget about him like he never existed.

This is partially one of the reasons why I've had little faith in the writers of this show, especially lately. :/
(no subject) - entangled_now on November 29th, 2010 10:15 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - rogueslayer452 on November 30th, 2010 11:21 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Revyallodole on November 29th, 2010 09:22 am (UTC)
.. Now I get a mental image of Michael and Lucifer in a boxing-ring with Sam as the referee.

I think they're fighting for ages- maybe after that they'll actually go: oh hey, why are we fighting again?

I'd love to see Marksha again.
Don't care about Adam, but would it kill them to just mention him.. :P
Renée: SPN. Castiel.rogueslayer452 on November 29th, 2010 06:36 pm (UTC)
Hee, well, sometimes my mind conjures up the weirdest-yet-plausible images like that. ;p

I kinda figure it would be like Dean and Sam in the cage, constantly fighting yet somewhere in the middle forgetting why they were fighting in the first place. Which often times feels like that on the show, because there's no resolution to anything and it feels like they're always going around in circles. Let's hope at least Lucifer and Michael come to a common ground and make amends and move on.

I would like at least some kind mention of Adam, the poor kid. :(