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08 April 2011 @ 11:35 am
Yet another Sucker Punch post.  

I want to share this interview because within it, Jena Malone and Emily Browning discuss the very topic about how certain people are viewing Sucker Punch, which is for the boys more than the women, and they give an excellent response which mirrors my own opinion and view on the film as a whole in such a calm, polite and concise manner than how I could have placed it. I suggest everyone, especially those skeptical or hesitant about the movie due the negative reviews, to watch and see their response because I think they are spot-on what I have been feeling but couldn't articulate properly without getting into a particular rant about something or other. In fact, the majority of the interviews with the cast, Emily in particular, have them articulate so well about their views on the story of the film itself that I feel they understand it way more than anyone else does. Emily gives the best description about the meaning behind the film in this interview.

In light of that, here are some amazingly well-written counter-arguments regarding the film and the cynicism it's been receiving. I highly suggest taking a look, because they are all thought-provoking and worth the read (caution: some contain heavy spoilers for the film):

Sucker Punch Part 1: The Story That One One Is Talking About and Part 2: Women, Weapons and Self-Sacrifice

"A few more words on Sucker Punch" via yoonikim @ Tumblr

This is an excellent write-up response made by thecannibalcollective, which includes examples of other classic superheroes such as Catwoman and Wonder Woman who also dress in a provocative sense, however aren't deemed to be over-sexualized like many naysayers are saying is happening with the Sucker Punch ladies.

An excellent post breaking down the arguments and debunking them posted by shadrad

Feminism and Sucker Punch by revertigo, short but to the point.

"I like kicking ass in high heels. That doesn't mean I'm a bad feminist." by leupagus I highly recommend reading this one in particular because it's very well articulated on the fact that this film can, in fact, be viewed as a feminist film, just not a comfortable one. And I have to agree with certain points because following the story it is about the girls, just the outcome isn't what you expect it to be but it still is about them and their journey for survival and it pays off in the end.

Another post discussing what people are missing, with a Buffy quote to emphasis their point written by impertinence

Sucker Punch and mainstream feminism also written by impertinence, however with a personal anecdote attached which really shows just how mainstream feminism shouldn't be speaking for everyone and anyone, women especially, who have found something they liked, even empowering, about the movie that they deem to be sexist and anti-feminist. This is something I hugely agree with what this person is saying because it's the main problem I have with many mainstream feminists who consider themselves the voices of all women. Like I mentioned in my previous post, don't belittle my right to feel empowered just because you aren't.

"In conclusion, I stand by my 'it's Inception but a lot less dull and about misogyny' assessment." written by sohotrightnow giving the acknowledgment on what the film touches on, and turns it on its head that it's a good thing.

The problem isn't Zack Snyder. The problem is you. This article gives valid points about why certain people are jumping on the bandwagon of criticizing the film, why it's ridiculous and why they shouldn't. I don't necessarily agree with everything being said in the article, but it's an interesting read nonetheless.

In Defense of Sucker Punch: Uncovering the Method Behind Zack Snyder's Madness, which is a greatly detailed article and analysis.

When reading these articles and posts, I stumbled across the realization about why the knee-jerk reaction of criticism occurs, which is mainly due to the triggering themes and subject matter. However this reaction is often misdirected which leads to blaming the film and calling it sexist instead of focusing on the bigger picture of what the story was actually representing. One doesn't have to like the film by any means, but there's a difference between that and blaming the film/director in its entirety.
Current Mood: accomplished
Shonaille: 30 Seconds to Mars Wicked Gamekalikahuntress on April 8th, 2011 09:39 pm (UTC)
Kind of nodding a long here, I got spoiled for the ending and my only real beef with the film is I find those kind of endings unsatisfying. I have issues with Zach Snyder but I don't feel the sexism allegations towards this film makes sense. What is sexist is Hollywood's inability to give women leading roles; look at 95% of movies. Women and POC are still supporting characters or love interest, and a women is pretty much only a lead if she is a love interest or if it's a chick flick. Now that concerns me, not hot chicks kicking ass. Kudos to Sucker Punch having a lead cast of women thank you very much who do more than cry and moon over a man.
Which is why I am more invested in TV as a media for entertainment; they at least have started to have women who do more than cry, cling or stand in the back while the men get to do cool shit.
Thanks for the links; even the second last one is hilariously bad. The poor man.
Filomena: BARBIE OF COURSEaubade_saudade on April 8th, 2011 09:51 pm (UTC)
i just came from watching the film and i didn't find the ending unsatisfying at all. in fact, it was bizarrely uplifting which i didn't think would happen from what i had been told of the ending by a friend.

Shonaille: Olivia Dunham Fractured but fearlesskalikahuntress on April 8th, 2011 10:10 pm (UTC)
I am still going to watch despite knowing the ending, but I will wait for DVD whereas before I wanted to see it in theaters.
Filomena: creep!Nick :Daubade_saudade on April 8th, 2011 10:26 pm (UTC)
hmm, not the same, bb, with this type of film it's a crime not to see it in all its cinematic glory, but i understand the fear. totally.

Renée: Sucker Punch. Baby Doll.rogueslayer452 on April 9th, 2011 03:37 pm (UTC)
Considering that they cut so much from the movie anyway, including the one that Emily Browning was enraged at the MPAA for forcing it to be taken away, along with the extended ending which would have given more sense to what was happening (and possibly a little less unsatisfactory), that's understandable.
Renée: BTVS. Buffy Summers.rogueslayer452 on April 9th, 2011 03:34 pm (UTC)
Gah, I'm sorry that you got spoiled! D: Should've thought about that when placing the links up.

And I completely agree with you, rarely do we see an entire female ensemble cast that have absolutely nothing to do with dwelling over a guy or comedic chick flick romances, and even very rarely do we see women in such roles for action-fantasy kind of films. So something like this should be celebrated, I think, in terms of having the guts to bring to the screen not just having an all-girl cast kicking ass but also presenting a heavy issue that has stirred up all this controversy, i.e. the sexism and objectification that occurs within the film and what the girls are fighting against. It blends the fantastical realm the film goes into with a disturbing reality and I think overall, this film is something else entirely that shouldn't be shunned by critics but looked at more closely.
Shonaille: NCIS LA Kensi Blye Dubiouskalikahuntress on April 9th, 2011 03:46 pm (UTC)
No worries, I spoiled myself early on since Hollywood has been a huge downer lately, I wanted to know what I was getting into. Maybe we will get that extended ending with the DVD/Blu-Ray release?
Renée: Sucker Punch. Ready to fight.rogueslayer452 on April 9th, 2011 03:53 pm (UTC)
I'm hoping so, otherwise Emily (along with me, and everyone else) is going to be even more enraged.
rawthorne on April 8th, 2011 10:38 pm (UTC)
I'll admit I haven't seen this film, nor have I any desire to do so. What boggles my mind is the campaign on both sides to defend or attack what ultimately strikes me as just another 'girls kicking ass' sort of flick (plus some Inception-y elements and heavy CGI).

I tend to agree that there are exploitative elements in the trailer chosen to represent the film (pigtails, heavy make-up and skimpy clothing were hardly meant to appeal to a wide swath of women viewers watching in search for characters to whom they could relate), but I also find it a bit of a stretch to call the message anti-feminist. However gauche, Sucker Punch doesn't seem to set out to explicitly ridicule or attack women in any way (unlike many dude-bro comedies these days).

Would I go so far as to agree with the article that seems to call all critics hypocrites for disagreeing with Snyder's 'vision'? No. Would I dare liken Snyder's action flick with WWII photography? No. Would I call using your sexuality to get what you want a revolutionary feminist tactic? Not hardly. There's many issues to take with the above articles (not least of which the rehashed 300 argument that seems to forget any historical accuracy one could lend to shirtless warriors in a certain climate and in a certain period), but overall, the question I get stuck on is... why.

At the end of the day, skinny, attractive girls in revealing clothing and full make-up kill bad guys. Resident Evil did something similar. So did Batman, as you note above. This doesn't come across as innovative cinema by any stretch, but neither is it deserving, in my opinion, of the vitriol poured in its general direction. The sad thing is that we lack better female-centric, mainstream media products where women of all shapes and sizes and ages can see themselves represented as both sexy and kickass... preferably without ending up in imaginary brothels to escape real life abuse.
cheerful_earl: Darlingcheerful_earl on April 9th, 2011 08:54 am (UTC)
I liked Suckerpunch and I can see both sides of the argument. I like that you've compiled these links here, because it's a fascinating debate to follow. Honestly, the only reason I came out of the film squicked was because of something Zach Snyder said at ComicCon and it's relation to dialogue in the movie. Heh.
Renée: Baby Doll. Where is my mind?rogueslayer452 on April 9th, 2011 03:16 pm (UTC)
What did Zack Snyder say?

Anyway, I agree since while I can see where things can be a bit problematic I don't think it merits all the negativity and controversy it's been getting. But the interesting thing about this is how much of a strong debate both sides are having.
cheerful_earlcheerful_earl on April 9th, 2011 06:17 pm (UTC)
He kept calling them "girls" and sort of nicely directing them to do stuff. He was like, "Girls, go sit down there and watch the trailer." It seemed a little condesending, but since they're young and he was their director, I didn't think too much of it until seeing the movie, where the same sort of language was used a lot. I kept thinking about that- how he wrote the movie and kept using the same language, even the same sort of tone, with these "girls". I know that they *are* significantly younger than he is but after seeing the movie it would NOT get out of my head.
Renée: LotS. Cara.rogueslayer452 on April 9th, 2011 06:26 pm (UTC)
Huh. Interesting. I could see where that may be problematic for some, but in all honesty I don't think he means anything by it. From what they've said about him as a person he's incredibly sweet and nice.
*Greenlee*nabba on April 9th, 2011 07:53 pm (UTC)
I don't know if this fits for what you're looking for, but here's another one - http://wickedwomenmag.com/2011/04/04/sucker-punch/ - I wrote it. I'd seen the movie and my knee-jerk reaction was, "Please don't let Zak Snyder write ever again." But something had nagged at me and that was why I didn't walk out.

There's definitely more going on... and I don't understand why soooo many people think, "you're a woman and you liked this?! What's wrong with you?" I've gotten that, as has my friend.
Renée: BSG. Cylon women are ftw.rogueslayer452 on April 10th, 2011 06:53 am (UTC)
There's definitely more going on... and I don't understand why soooo many people think, "you're a woman and you liked this?! What's wrong with you?" I've gotten that, as has my friend.

I find it really condescending when people say that, or expect that if you're for women being empowered and end up liking this film, or better yet felt personally empowered by watching it, you are completely and utterly anti-feminist and there's something wrong with you. I don't get that mindset, at all.
♥ Kanki ♥: [SP] Baby Doll ઌ Ready for the battle!kanki_yamato on April 9th, 2011 08:58 pm (UTC)
First of all thank you so much for all of those links,I will read all of them when I have some free time. I hope you don't mind if I save the link of this page in my favorites.

Second,I like how they responded to the criticism. What they say is exactly what I think about this movie,strong femmale heroine that fight against a bad fate and not remain passive to the events!

I hope those interview will help people to understand better the movie and stop to say stupid thing about it!
Renée: Sucker Punch. Open your mind.rogueslayer452 on April 10th, 2011 06:42 am (UTC)
Oh that's totally fine, I don't mind at all. ;)

Yeah, I hope this interview, and the rest of their interviews actually, give more understanding to those who are heavily critical of the movie. If people just didn't like it that's cool but, some obviously missed many vital points and give this rash accusations that make you scratch your head going, "where did they pull that from?" I feel like the girls explain the meaning behind the story of the film very well.
just a small town girl: [supernatural] mary winchestercarameltrap on April 10th, 2011 03:54 am (UTC)
You got a couple articles there that I haven't read through and the video. Thanks for the links.

This is a refreshing movie for where the female leads are not romantic interest or take second place to a male lead. Give me a movie like SP over a rom-com anytime.
Renée: Baby Doll. Where is my mind?rogueslayer452 on April 10th, 2011 06:37 am (UTC)
You're welcome, bb. Granted I betcha there's tons more out there but, better to get started with these ones that hold plenty of valid points.

And I totally agree with you. While the movie wasn't perfect, it's better than some of the repeated stories we've seen regarding action or romantic comedies. Because it is rare to see female leads who are working together and fighting for themselves than for any man. I think this is something to be celebrated, actually. Which is why I love this movie.
Alice: misc - sucker punchbeerbad on April 10th, 2011 07:04 am (UTC)
THANK YOU for collecting and posting all of this.
Renée: Sucker Punch. Baby Doll.rogueslayer452 on April 10th, 2011 05:56 pm (UTC)
You're very welcome. :)
Aaeth Payne: Do NOT likeaaeth on April 10th, 2011 04:54 pm (UTC)
I just saw Sucker Punch yesterday. And while I have issues with the movie, those are with the plot and I always have those problems. I didn't think this movie was anti-feminist at all...

But I think there are always going to be people who insist on those sorts of interpretations when it comes to books/movies/comics.

And it is *so* true that you'll find worse exploitation of women and anti-feminist messages in movies that are supposedly 'for women'. (Bride Wars, He's Just Not That Into You, All About Steve, etc.)
Renée: Baby Doll. Where is my mind?rogueslayer452 on April 10th, 2011 07:14 pm (UTC)
And it is *so* true that you'll find worse exploitation of women and anti-feminist messages in movies that are supposedly 'for women'. (Bride Wars, He's Just Not That Into You, All About Steve, etc.)

Absolutely. While certain chick flicks are catering for the women, they also present sexism that is often gone unnoticed or not mentioned because we see it frequently. With scifi/fantasy movies, particularly ones that mirror video games, people are quick to judge because of the visuals and especially how the women are dressed. However there's undoubtedly gratuitousness sexism that appears in romcoms, it's ridiculous. :/

Edited at 2011-04-10 07:15 pm (UTC)