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21 August 2011 @ 08:13 pm
To spin-off or not to spin-off?  
Joss Whedon created Angel as a spin-off from Buffy the Vampire Slayer. And while I know there were certain opinions regarding the differences between the two shows, there was a level of development of the characters that transferred from BTVS to Angel. They actually underwent some fascinating character growths and transformations that wouldn't have happened had they remained on BTVS, since they would have been minor characters and, not that minor characters didn't have growth over there, but on Angel it was a different level of development. The transition from one to another really did help these characters to have such rich material (Angel, Cordelia, Wesley and Faith respectively) that otherwise wouldn't have been thoroughly explored had they remained on BTVS.

So why can't the same happen for Castiel from Supernatural?

Judging from the comments that have been made, not just from today via the recent interviews but in general, there is a massive split between the fandom about whether the show should have characters like Castiel staying or that it should always be about the brothers and no one else. The show has always been neglectful with their minor characters, many of which had much potential and they just never fully developed them or took advantage of such amazing opportunities. Having a spin-off would bring those opportunities to life that the show wouldn't even consider, let alone allow them to have. Which doesn't make sense since SPN isn't even a huge ensemble show anyway so this shouldn't be a common occurrence of abandoning/killing off characters just for the because factor, but I digress.

Castiel is a fan favorite, the majority of the fandom fell in love with him the moment he was introduced and have been rallying, campaigning and showing love and support for him ever since. You'd think that they would take the hint that perhaps people want more Castiel elsewhere instead of on the show where his storylines often get pushed off-screen. And since this is all about the money nowadays, this would double their chances at more viewership and the ratings, which is precisely what the network wants.

I mean come on, if the Ghostfacers can have their own webseries I'm sure Castiel can most definitely have his own spin-off. I'm just saying.
Current Mood: thoughtfulthoughtful
kaiyotekaiyote on August 22nd, 2011 03:26 am (UTC)
I really wish they'd at least make a comic book or web series or something that deals with Castiel and the rest of the angels. Like I've always found the angels and their family dynamic and what's going on in Heaven to be one of the most fascinating aspects of the show but they so rarely utilized the potential they had there and ugh... wasted potention makes me sadface. Or rage. One of those. ...quite possibly both.
Renée: Castiel. Guardian angel.rogueslayer452 on August 22nd, 2011 03:59 am (UTC)
There have been so many missed opportunities with many things on this show. I've been intrigued with the angel family dynamic most of all as well, not just because it was fresh and new but also because it paralleled somewhat to the Winchesters as well. I wanted to see more resolution with that, ever since the fourth season. There was just so much material to dive into, so much to play with and explore and they just...didn't.

Someone wrote on Tumblr a great post recently about how having such richness of characters and storylines is a writer's dream and they would take every chance to further explore that. And the fact that SPN hasn't, only takes a peek and just abandons it completely, is deeply devastating to any good writer. It's like looking into the greatest opportunity you could have and taking a pass, when you could have something greater and bigger and something one of a kind. Why would they pass it up? It's not like the Winchesters are going anywhere, that there's a huge cast to balance out. They are just not taking risks, they aren't digging deeper as other shows or other creative works would have done. And it's sad.
Revyallodole on August 22nd, 2011 03:46 am (UTC)
I definitely could get behind a Cas-spin-off. He deserves it.
Renée: SPN. Castiel.rogueslayer452 on August 22nd, 2011 04:23 am (UTC)
He more than deserves it at this point.
dauntperplexitydauntperplexity on August 22nd, 2011 04:36 am (UTC)
I figured that the reasons why they didn't show a lot of the angel business is because it wasn't the brothers. That, and the budget would have been too much to show angelic battles and all that. But now it isn't a problem because Dawn O or whatever her name was isn't there anymore, right?

I could totally get behind a spin-off with Castiel. Just give him to Edlund and they can work their magic. Just imagine how awesome it would be. And all of the minor characters could play a part. It would be great for Edlund to utilize the minor characters where Supernatural thinks it all fine and dandy to just kill them off.

I noticed the division between the fans and it sucks that one side gets to be happy. A spin-off would make a bunch of people happy too. I feel like it would strengthen the franchise if anything. They could make bank off of it.

But now I just feel like I'm spewing random nonsense. Sorry if it doesn't make any sense at all.
Renée: Castiel. Guardian angel.rogueslayer452 on August 22nd, 2011 05:48 pm (UTC)
You're not spewing nonsense bb, I understand you completely. :)

I don't quite know or understand how network budgeting works, although you'd think that they would have had least given them more money if they were wanting more seasons so they could at least do something more epic if they needed to. I'm surprised they haven't yet, both on the budget increase and for the show to do something that bold.

I noticed the division between the fans and it sucks that one side gets to be happy. A spin-off would make a bunch of people happy too. I feel like it would strengthen the franchise if anything. They could make bank off of it.

Exactly. Granted I know money is an issue, as I said above I don't know how it all works regarding networks upping the budgets for shows, but it would make so much sense considering. It would make all the fans happy, those who want only the Winchesters can have their show, while those of us who want more of Castiel and other minor characters can have a spin-off. Perhaps occasional cross-overs and such can happen, like how BTVS and Angel did. Seeing as how the network likes to milk everything it's worth, why aren't they taking this chance?

Never mind let's take a look at how influential Misha has been to the show since. Many people got into SPN because of Castiel, season four was the highest rated season because of the angel storyline/Castiel due to that very fact. Castiel and Misha have been winning in online polls ever since, making the show getting more recognition elsewhere.

So really, it's a no-brainer, right?
(Deleted comment)
Renée: Castiel. Guardian angel.rogueslayer452 on August 22nd, 2011 05:52 pm (UTC)
Exactly. The Winchester fans can watch the original show, while the Castiel/other minor character fans can watch the spin-off. Everyone is happy.
Kevin Jonesmulder200 on August 22nd, 2011 05:11 am (UTC)
OMG! Yes! A web series based on Castiel and his adventures would be so cool!

Not to mention a great chance to explore him as a character. During the sixth season, he was the most fascinating character on the series and I think that's why they dropped him as a regular. Besides, let's face it! Sam and Dean are boring with the never ending cycle of lying and not talking and it's just the same shit over and over and over again. Boring.

While Castiel is like a breath of fresh air in a stale room.
Renée: Castiel. Bitch please.rogueslayer452 on August 23rd, 2011 05:21 am (UTC)
From my observation from many comments over the last several months, people would rather have this show become procedural and repetitive with just the Winchesters with their recycled issues: something wrong happens with Sam, Dean tries to save his brother, they are codependent on each other time and time again, epic manpain ensues. Rinse and repeat.

Castiel brought in a new element, something that broke that cycle, and people weren't happy. How dare there be something more to this universe than just the brothers! We can't have new and exciting characters be introduced and become series regulars, otherwise they will hog the spotlight and we will never get the repeated brotherly angst!

just a small town girl: [actor: misha collins] dimplecarameltrap on August 22nd, 2011 06:05 am (UTC)
Webcomic, webseries, graphic novels, anything. It would be really interesting to see all the aspects of the angelic family and their hierachy. Not only that but to feature whatever minor characters in there and use them to their fullest.
Renée: TEAM CAS KILLS EVERYONE.rogueslayer452 on August 22nd, 2011 06:16 pm (UTC)
Precisely. It makes me so sad and disappointed that the show only uses minor characters as plot devices and just drop them without any kind of character development. A spin-off would be a great platform to expand and explore those character roles and how they are involved in this paranormal world. Particularly the angels, since their family dynamic simply fascinating to me.

The show isn't just about two brothers, it's about the supernatural and everything around and connected to it. This universe is so vast, so many places and venues to further explore and they've done none of that. So many possibilities and opportunities missed. :/
jakwezstjakwezst on August 22nd, 2011 12:39 pm (UTC)
This makes so much sense that it's pretty much a given that the PTB would never even consider it as an option!

I have been quietly seething since the finale, but the funniest thing? It's the fans who are hating on Castiel (not even the vitriol extended to those fans who think differently to them because I can shrug that one off)who really make me want to get really, really vicious and bitchy. The PTB? Like I said in another comment, I just have to accept that they're prats who will do what they will do whether it makes creative or commercial sense and further accept that it doesn't pay to give them the satisfaction of thinking that what they choose to do with the characters in canon actually matters, in the sense of perverting OUR sense of who these characters are. I see them as akin to fanfic writers who have a certain take on the characters that while valid doesn't really affect the way YOU see the characters. I mean, since it was one writer (right? Ben Edlund?) who created Castiel why then should we all of a sudden decide that what any other writer chooses to do to that character is actually 'canon'? We don't when it comes to fanfic do we? We just see each fic as an individual interpretation of the character, an exploration of one possible storyline, which we are, after all, under no obligation to accept and adopt in our read of said character(s)(outside the act of reading that fic). To me, canon works the same way. It really just becomes one possible direction the story could go - it doesn't affect MY interpretation of the material, of the actual character traits... I mean by now we ALL have a nice pile of backstory, character traits etc etc from which to build coherent, interesting stories in the SPN universe. Some writers writing for the t.v show choose to pervert, curtail, do a great disservice to the incredible characters at their disposal take it in one direction. I just don't see that as primary the way most people do. I'm of the belief that making it on screen doesn't necessarily make it more real or legitimate. I think that's where I might differ from a few fans, though. :D ;)
Becky: SPN: Cas is nawt amusedbeckytheelf on August 23rd, 2011 04:22 am (UTC)
I just can't anymore with SPN. I've been saying it a lot lately but it gets truer as the seconds pass. I'm just so disappointed and annoyed. At this point, I'd rather they let poor Cas die off or just disappear with dignity and not go onto webseries because honestly? I don't trust them not to fuck it up. And I hate that that's what it's come to for me now but I'd rather have no Cas than terribly developed!Cas or just a joke!Cas like he's been for most of S6. *sigh*
Renée: Dean/Castiel. Fuckery.rogueslayer452 on August 23rd, 2011 05:18 am (UTC)
Right now, I'm just really angry on behalf of the actors, because they're dealing with all of this shit when they clearly aren't happy with any of it, either. But they can't say anything or voice their true opinions on this matter. :/

I don't trust them to do anything justice with his character arc, or any of the characters and their stories for that matter. Gamble at the helm has really fucked things over on many levels. I can't see them giving Castiel a satisfactory redemption arc in two episodes and just not having him around anymore. There's already speculation on either him giving up the souls and then falling indefinitely, or going back to Heaven to heal, or whatever. But honestly? From the sounds of it the Winchesters aren't even gonna bother helping him. All last season was them emotionally and verbally attacking Castiel for no reason whatsoever, before and after learning the truth. And then they had the audacity to make the comment about them being "like a family once."

The show fucked up the Winchesters too because of that last season. They were so uncharacteristically mean to Castiel that it was like watching different characters. -___-

I would rather have a Castiel spin-off than have them completely assassinate his character further on this show. It would make things so much better, esp considering how Gamble clearly dislikes Castiel and doesn't even regard Misha as a cast member anymore, it's disgusting how she tries to act like she cares when she obviously doesn't.
cottoncandy86cottoncandy86 on August 23rd, 2011 06:12 am (UTC)
Exactly. I'm late on this but you make a especially good point about ghostfacers. People liked them enough to spawn a web-series. Surely Castiel is popular enough for a spin off too.

It doesn't have to go on and on like Supernatural, maybe just a web-series or a mini series. Run by Edlund of course. Yes please!

Seriously though, I've been a pushing a spin off for a while because SPN has a bad rep when it comes to minor characters and I got tired of seeing Cas' story-lines (which were in some cases, more interesting than the Winchesters) pushed to the side. A spin off would be beneficial and very business savvy, imo. It makes sense.
Renée: Caprica. Zoe Graystone.rogueslayer452 on August 24th, 2011 04:40 am (UTC)
If anything they should have done webseries during S5 or S6, showing Castiel doing his own thing that was separate from the Winchesters. To give us more insight on what he was doing, just giving us something like that so it all connects to what is happening on the show. I mean, Heroes did something like that when they released a graphic novel strip every week to coincide with their episodes, just for a little background information that wasn't being shown on the aired show. It's not beyond the realm of possibility, even with a limited budget.

And you're definitely right, having a spin-off of that sort would be beneficial and business savvy, it would have expanded their franchise more than ever.

Of course I'm biased. I love and care about Castiel way too much, and I'm more partial to loving and wanting more of the minor characters these days. The Winchesters are kinda old news to me. There's just nothing really worth telling about them anymore, not at the rate the show has been going lately. I would rather have a spin-off with Castiel and his family dynamic because we hardly know enough about them. Same with the demons and their hierarchy, as well. Something I never understood -- the show has had demons on their show since the first season, and yet we still know very little about them. I would like to know the inner workings of demons, and I would actually like to see a demon that isn't evil for once; Crowley comes very close to that, but it's not enough. That's one of the many gripes I have about this show, in fact.

But I'm rambling in my rant now. Sorry about that. As you can see, I have many opinions on what this show has done, or rather not done and after the recent promos and interviews popping up.....I feel my emotions and opinions bubbling to the surface again.